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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Difference between Heretics and Lukewarm Christianity?

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IWantAnguish
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Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Difference between Heretics and Lukewarm Christianity?

Is there any difference between Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc. and lukewarm Christianity?

A lot of Mormons I confront around my campus know the Bible much better than the average church going 'Christian.'

A lot of Jehovah's Witnesses know a lot more doctrine than the lukewarm Christian.

Taking these facts into consideration, do you think Jehovah's Witnesses are hell bound because they believe in wrong facts regarding God?

If entrance into heaven is determined by mental assent to correct doctrinal statements, how many people are really gonna make it?

The point I'm attempting to make is this... it seems as if we have Christian's running around trying to combat false doctrines and false teachings, as if these things are the crimes that will send them to hell.

I would go so far as to say that the problem lies much deeper in the hearts of these people, that they lack a passion and a desire /hunger to glorify God in their lives and communities; because of the condition of their unregenerate hearts.

Ask a heretic the following question:

Do you find your happiness in the glory of God in Christ?

Anything else is legalism.


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Sam Yoon

 2010/2/13 17:03Profile









 Re: Difference between Heretics and Lukewarm Christianity?

Quote


"Taking these facts into consideration, do you think Jehovah's Witnesses are hell bound because they believe in wrong facts regarding God?"


Knowledge of facts, whether correct or incorrect have nothing to do with one's salvation. One either knows Jesus or they do not. After one "knows," Jesus then the Holy Spirit leads and guides them into all truths. Most of the people that I have ever met who genuinly "knew," Jesus were some of the most othrdox people around. So, first comes Jesus then comes knowledge through the Word and guided by the Holy Spirit. I was just talking to a JW the other day and she spent most of her time denying the deity of Jesus. She got uncomfortable when I simply asked her if she "knew," Jesus in the intimate sense that is used in Scriptures by the word "know." Pray for her saints, her name is Carrie and she comes from a very strict Baptist background............Frank

 2010/2/13 17:20
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Difference between Heretics and Lukewarm Christianity?

Quote:
false doctrines and false teachings, as if these things are the crimes that will send them to hell.



Be assured that they will.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The point you are trying to make and place you are heading could be quite dangerous if you are not based on the Scriptures.

Quote:
Ask a heretic the following question: Do you find your happiness in the glory of God in Christ? Anything else is legalism.



This is your conclusion based upon your presumptions. Not based upon Scriptures. Don't be too quick to make such statements. What the Word of God is saying about the heretics, and what the word of God is saying about the Lukewarm Church?

 2010/2/13 17:32Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything. So also, neither praying a sinner's prayer or not praying, being baptized or not, reciting the right doctrinal creed or not, nor anything else religion has devised avails anything. What does avail is if you are a new creation, if you have been regenerated. That will come with a proper understanding of Who Christ is but the proper understanding itself is not a guarantee of regeneration. I like the way Paul wrote of our gaining salvation to Titus:

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:4-7

The work is done by God through His Spirit which is supplied by Christ. Are there biblical responses (i.e. confessing Christ as Lord, repentance, etc) that will follow, yes, but those are fruits that one has received the gift of God that is salvation.

Also, good insights TearsofJoy.


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Paul

 2010/2/13 17:38Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Difference between Heretics and Lukewarm Christianity?

I guess in a sense there is a difference, and in a sense there isn't.

Frank pointed out something in his post that I think is key. This woman was denying the deity of Christ. Jehovah's Witness and Mormons both deny His divinity. They practice a works based religion that claims their reward will be based on how well they followed the particular practices of their religion, and does not recognize salvation by grace or understand relationship with God through Jesus Christ. In this sense they are very different. They do not understand the gospel, let alone teach it. So it is error, and I am afraid eternally fatal. We do need to pray for this woman Frank is ministering to that the light of the gospel will shine in her heart and mind and that the blinders will come off. I do find it interesting that the transition from very orthodox baptist to JW was so easily made. I am afraid that there are many in the body of Christ who go to what we would call "mainline" churches that do not understand the gospel either and are hoping to make it based on their own unique brand of legalism (keeping a set of laws as a way to right standing with God), rather than trusting in His grace alone.

Jesus reference to lukewarmness is the same idea as His reference to salt that has lost its savor. The end result could very will be the same as someone who is in total error believing a lie rather than the truth. The deception can be just as strong. The difference, I guess, would be that while the JW or Mormons never had a passion for Christ but are led to believe falsehood right out of the box, many lukewarm Christians have at one time been on fire for the Lord and have left that first love so to speak.

Both equally need to be awakened to the truth. Both need us to pray for them equally.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/2/13 17:52Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Revelation says the lukewarm church is going to be vomited out of the mouth of Jesus.

John says that they went out from among us because they never were of us.

It would be hard to find a person more deceived than a nominal Christian... one who claims to believe in THE Christ, THE Son of God, THE risen Savior, yet continues to live as if God is dead.

If you are making the assumption that I am condoning heresy... I don't know what to say. lol =x

I've never met a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness or any other cult member who really cared about the cross of Christ above the specific garbage in their beliefs that set them apart from the mainstream religious crowd.


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Sam Yoon

 2010/2/13 22:53Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

IWantAnguish: Not implying that anyone is condoning heresy at all. In your post you asked whether anyone saw a difference in the two. I was just saying that on one level there is a difference. The one is deceived into believing a heresy, the other has known the truth but is asleep. Unfortunately the end result of both roads may very well be the same destination.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/2/14 8:27Profile





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