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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: logic

Quote:
Lysa wrote
And why would a non-believer even care what Jesus was trying to say?


Quote:
Logic wrote
All who were there listening were believers.


Exactly my point!!!

Thank you Logic!!


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Lisa

 2010/2/2 19:28Profile
Dountoothers
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Joined: 2009/1/12
Posts: 21
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 Re: Who was Jesus addressing in Mathew 5?

Dear Silo,
For a few days before you put up this post the Lord had been speaking to me through these verses in particular. Everyone seems to agree that He is speaking to His disciples so these words are for all of us to take to heart. We beleivers, Jesus is saying, are in danger of being thrown into Hell if we don't get rid of our sin. Not just in these verses, but most times when Jesus mentions Hell, He's obviously speaking to beleivers.

He appears to be speaking of an habitual or long term problem with a particular sin; the first word, 'if your eye causes you to sin...', comes immediately after He says that whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in His heart. But He doesn't say repent, confess, receive forgiveness and on your way. He's surely talking about taking some very ruthless, preventative action ourselves ....lest we sin again, and again, and again and eventually die without having overcome this sin.
We know we can't overcome sin ourselves without God's grace....but we have to choose to avail ourselves of that grace. That grace will enable us to hate that sin and hating it we will withstand that sin with all our strength. We will be prepared to do anything to overcome. We will be prepared to give up anything, however precious to us, however important, good or useful that thing is (even our 'right' hand, our 'best' hand).
I think He's saying we need to be as radical as is necessary to get us free. So if, for example, pornography is our problem, we may just need to confess to someone else and that will cause us to stop sinning or we may need to get rid of our computer, and if we work with computers, get a different job. If alcohol is our problem, we may need to go to a rehabilitation centre. If overspending is our problem, cut up the credit cards or maybe let someone else look after our money. Taking this seriously means being ruthless.

This is a warning word for all of us, so thank you Silo for drawing attention to it. May we take it seriously and put it into practice and not just discuss it.
God bless you, Gwen.


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Gwendoline Mead

 2010/2/3 18:04Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

This may help;


Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Matthew 5:1



CHAPTER 5


5. The Proclamation of the King concerning His Kingdom. Chapters 5-7
1. The Characteristics of the heirs of the Kingdom. 5:1-16.
2. The Confirmation of the Law and its Expansion. 5:17-48.
In chapters 5-7 we have the full report of the so-called Sermon on the Mount. Mark and Luke give fragments of this discourse, but the complete discourse is found only in Matthew. The Sermon on the Mount is the proclamation of the King concerning His Kingdom, and may well be called the "Magna Charta of the Kingdom of heaven." This discourse does not expound the Gospel of Grace, the way of salvation, the privileges and blessings of true Christianity. The teachers who say that the Sermon on the Mount is the Gospel are ignorant of what the Gospel is. We mention three wrong applications which are being made of this discourse.

1. The application to the unsaved, as if in this discourse the way to righteousness is shown, which man by his own effort is to attain. The discourse in the beginning speaks of saved persons, of disciples. The Lord does not address sinners. He taught His disciples. As the great unfolding of the salvation of God as revealed in the Epistle to the Romans is abandoned in Christendom, the false application of this discourse is increasingly followed. There is little preaching of the lost and helpless condition of man, the necessity of the new birth and the reception of eternal life. What is put in the place of the true Gospel is ethical teaching; and this has culminated in a Christian-socialistic attempt to save society. The Sermon on the Mount is taken as the program for this. But it condemns this spurious Gospel of works and evolution.

2. The second wrong application is the one which makes this discourse exclusively Christian and applies it to the Church. The magna charta of the Church is in the Epistles of Paul, to whom the full revelation of the Church was given. Christian position is not revealed in the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount is not given as the standard of Christian experience and walk.

3. The third false application is the one which makes this discourse exclusively Jewish. Some Christians refuse to consider these chapters as having any message or instruction for them at all. This is the other extreme and equally wrong. We repeat, the Sermon on the Mount is the proclamation of the King concerning His Kingdom. That Kingdom is not the church, nor is it a state of righteousness of the earth brought about through the agency of the church. It is the Kingdom as it will be set up by the King with the coming age. While in the Old Testament we have the outward manifestations of that earthly Kingdom revealed, we have here from the lips of the King the inner principles of that Kingdom. When the Lord Jesus Christ comes again the Old Testament predictions concerning the Kingdom will be literally fulfilled and the Kingdom itself will be a Kingdom of righteousness according to this proclamation. However, this does not exclude application to us, the heirs of the Kingdom.

The beatitudes give the character of the heirs who enter the Kingdom. They do not speak of what a person should be, or strive to be, but what they are. Only the Grace of God can produce such a character. The blessings are in possession of those, who have believed on the Son of God. And the Lord Jesus manifested all these characteristics in His humiliation. But these beatitudes have also a significance in connection with the future believing remnant of Israel, waiting amidst the great tribulations and under the severest persecutions at the end of the age for the return of the King. See Zep 3:12 and Isa 66:2; Mic 7:1-7.

The Law is then taken up by the King in this proclamation. He is the Lawgiver and therefore He confirms, expands and supplements the Law. Here we are on Jewish ground. Believers in Christ have nothing to do with the law. We are dead to the law (Ro 7:4; Ga 3:24-25.) The better righteousness needed to enter the Kingdom is not man's own righteousness, but that which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

As He speaks with authority He uncovers the heart of man and shows the depths of corruption and the hopelessness that the natural man could ever attain such a righteousness. The words of the King condemn every man and prove him lost. The condemnation of the natural man is written there.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/2/3 18:46Profile
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 Re:

Good post Philip. I remember reading that commentary and finding it enriching.

As an off-topic side note, Guzik remarks on the SOTM:

"It can't be proved, but in my opinion, the Sermon on the Mount was Jesus' "standard" sermon. It was the core of His itinerant message: a simple proclamation of how God expects us to live, contrasting with common Jewish misunderstandings of that life. It may be that when Jesus preached to a new audience, He often preached this sermon or used the themes from it."


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Paul

 2010/2/3 18:56Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re: Who was Jesus addressing in Mathew 5?

Here is what the text says:

5:1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

That is the audience...


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Josh Parsley

 2010/2/4 8:55Profile
Silo
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Joined: 2009/11/11
Posts: 73


 Re:

So the audience is the multitude...both believers and non-believers.

Kind of like going to church. You have a mix of people who believe and people are just watching.

Either way...there listening to the words of Jesus...and then have to make a decision.

 2010/2/4 10:48Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re: No need to strive?????

Re: "The beatitudes give the character of the heirs who enter the Kingdom. They do not speak of what a person should be, or strive to be, but what they are. Only the Grace of God can produce such a character. The blessings are in possession of those, who have believed on the Son of God. And the Lord Jesus manifested all these characteristics in His humiliation."

This statement speaks of the rest of a mature - a "telos" faith. However, there is a danger in forgetting the words the Holy Spirit authored through several of the chosen vessels that we have been told to imitate.

"Strive (agonidzo/agonize) to enter the narrow gate, for many shall seek to enter and not be able." Jesus Christ

"For I beat my body and make it my slave, lest after having preached to others, I myself should be disapproved - (adokimos/rejected)." The Apostle Paul

"Give all diligence (speudeo) to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never fall."
The Apostle Peter

Truly all these outworkings are evidence of the inner working of the grace of God. However, we rarely find the emphasis placed upon "not striving" as the above statement sets forth. The reality of God being at work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure is manifested in our working out our salvation in fear and trembling.

"Everyone who competes in the games exercises discipline in all things."

The reward is not handed out in the beginning of the race, only at the end. Let us run so as to win.

Beware of such things.

makrothumia


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2010/2/4 11:23Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

I thought about that PreachParsly. Good insight. I did hear it preached that it was the disciples specifically. Like when the disciples came, He opened His mouth and taught them specifically.

Does anybody know the Greek well enough to see where the emphasis lies?

I know in the Luke account (if it is indeed a re-telling of the same day), begins:

"Luk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God."

One commentator called it the ordination service of the disciples as Christ had just called them in v. 13-16.

Anyhoo, it is interesting that the same message in essence is preceded by a phrase that makes it look like He is speaking directly to the disciples.



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Paul

 2010/2/4 12:06Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Quote:
Re: "The beatitudes give the character of the heirs who enter the Kingdom. They do not speak of what a person should be, or strive to be, but what they are. Only the Grace of God can produce such a character. The blessings are in possession of those, who have believed on the Son of God. And the Lord Jesus manifested all these characteristics in His humiliation."

This statement speaks of the rest of a mature - a "telos" faith. However, there is a danger in forgetting the words the Holy Spirit authored through several of the chosen vessels that we have been told to imitate.



I think what is being said here is not a "lay back and enjoy the ride perfectionism meets antinomianism" or something like that. The beatitudes themselves are what a Christian is. If you are not poor in spirit, if you have never mourned over sin, if you don't hunger and thirst for righteousness, etc then it sounds like that person hasn't been regenerated through conversion. Of course these fruits aren't mature, and the person still falls 7 times, but they do mourn over that sin, they do depend on God to grow them in His image, they are meek, etc. Like the firstfruits are there divinely by God's doing, not of man's striving...though they may blossom to fullness with the labors of man albiet in the power of the Spirit. This is just saying that if you don't have any of these things, you can't just decide that you're going to be poor in spirit or mourn over sins and then do some work to achieve the desired state.


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Paul

 2010/2/4 12:14Profile
whyme
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Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Preacher Parsly said:
by PreachParsly on 2010/2/4 5:55:53

Here is what the text says:

5:1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

That is the audience...


I thought the same thing once, but take a look at the text wrapping up the sermon:

Matthew 7:28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

Please don't forget also, that not all "diciples" that followed Jesus did in fact, become believers. See John 6.

 2010/2/4 13:20Profile





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