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Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Good post Snuf. Who was the preacher?


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Paul

 2010/1/22 11:01Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3524
Louisiana

 Re: Demon Possesion from the Prophetic Movement / Todd Bentley / IHOP / etc. -Kundala

What usually happens in a discussion like this is that anyone that has ever been involved in the prophetic movement is usually looked upon as being either a false teacher or a false prophet. It it guilt by association.

There are three men that I am very familiar with their ministires that have been a great blessing to the Body of Christ and to me personally that have had ties to the prophetic movement. They are Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, and Francis Frangipane.

Francis Frangipane has some of the best discipleship materials of anyone that I know of. We have gone through these materials as a group, and have benefited much in our spiritual growth from them. The studies deal with knowing God, and Christlikeness.

Lou Engle is a man that is very passionate about prayer, and just recently my wife and I attended "The Call Houston". There was much repentance that went out from these meetings for our own personal sins and the sins of our nation. Everyone in attendance gets involved in prayer as we broke up into small groups. There were thousands of young people that were at this event and were deeply moved by the Spirit of God with a burden of prayer.

I appreciate what Mike Bickle is doing in the area of praise and worship, as well as prayer. We work closely with a ministry in our area that is patterned after IHOP, and this ministry is a vital part of what goes on locally in the area of intercession.

Mike





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Mike

 2010/1/22 13:23Profile
daniel-
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Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
Germany

 Re:

Good post, Abideinhim!

We have our little boxes that we put people in, simply because we have heard that maybe they have some kind of association with a person or a ministry that someone who is a sound teacher called false, so ... He surely is totally deceived! Brethren, this is totally wrong judgement and wicked in heart. This will stop you from loving the sisters and brothers and you will put a label on people even though you dont even know them. This is wrong and it grieves God.
Now, I know there are indeed a lot of false anointings and there is tremendous deception ... but let us not make a judgement from hearsay nor put people in our boxes. There are sincere people in every movement and the Father knows who are His. He will not give a stone to those who ask Him for the Holy Spirit. Only those who do not receive the love of the truth get deceived. And truth is not necessarily your framework of doctrine. Truth is a person. It is very easy for us to firmly decide in our hearts full of assurance of "rightness" who and what is from God and who and what is not from God and surely everyone with a different opinion than me is totally deceived! Be aware lest God will do something that utterly offends you. He hates this pride.

Daniel


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Daniel Sahm

 2010/1/22 13:45Profile
Goldminer
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Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Demon Possesion from the Prophetic Movement / Todd Bentley / IHOP / etc. -Kundalani spirits

What daniel and abideinhim said. It is a good question whether we know first hand of what we speak or if it is hearsay.


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KLC

 2010/1/22 14:12Profile
Giggles
Member



Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Good posts both Abideinhim and Daniel. Proper spirit of humilty and contriteness are in order in these matters. Good word indeed.

As a word of balance, the sincerity of an individual should never be the basis for solid discernment/judgment. There have been and are many well-meaning heretics and cultists. I am not rendering a specific judgment on anyone listed in this thread but merely stating a fact for prudence sake.

Jonanthan Edwards has a great treatment of 1 John 4 on testing the spirits to see whether they are of God:

[url=http://edwards.yale.edu/archive?path=aHR0cDovL2Vkd2FyZHMueWFsZS5lZHUvY2dpLWJpbi9uZXdwaGlsby9nZXRvYmplY3QucGw/Yy4zOjUud2plbw==]Distinguishing Marks of the Work of a Spirit of God[/url]

Manifestations (weeping, shaking, laughing, etc) in and of themselves are not conclusive evidence that a work is or is not of the Holy Spirit. Is the true Christ being exalted? Does it oppose the interests of Satan? Are people being pointed to the Word of God? Is truth elevated? Are people being moved to deeper love for God and others? These factors are more critical to discerning if a thing is of God or not.


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Paul

 2010/1/22 14:20Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1073
Germany NRW

 Re: Demon Possesion from the Prophetic Movement / Todd Bentley / IHOP / etc. -Kundala

The carnal human nature desires to have an easy "litmus test" to test if something is right or wrong. That is the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. True discernment can only come to us when we eat the fruit of life.

Associating with ministries
It is naive to believe that just because someone is affiliated with a godly or ungodly ministry that these people are likewise. We cannot separate the wheat from the tares before the time. This is different from the distinguishing between wolves and sheep.

Doctrine
Doctrine can be checked against the word of truth, but what about those who are nearly 100% orthodox but still operate in the opposite spirit. Of such were Baalam yet he was Satan's most powerful weapon. We will not be able to discern this most devious type of deception unless you have the nature of Jesus through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We can discern by their fruit
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Luke 9:49-50 (King James Version)
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

So what then with these borderline cases that were mentioned here earlier? It appears to me that true brethren have different opinions about the authenticity of other ministries. There is even a website that color-codes ministries in respect to that. Throughout history many truly godly ministries have been rejected by the majority of "orthodox" Christendom and today is no exception. Sounds confusing, he?

There are some discernment ministries that show good doctrinal insights on one hand but exercise discernment in such a condemning and pharisaic spirit that I wonder if they actually do more damage than good.

So how can we obtain the right discernment?

I find the answer in the ode of Wisdom in the first chapters of Proverbs. It is all there...just open our bible! The question is, can I admit to the Lord that I am simple and need guidance from him or do I leave this to others who profess to be expert. Every Christian must exercise discernment in as much we are testing food if it is good.

Prov 1: 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm."

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 116:6
The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.

Psalm 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Proverbs 1:4
To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.




 2010/1/22 19:24Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
If these people were our children would we speak of them with the same gusto.



It is this idea that the devil has used to bring about the down fall of many otherwise stable preachers and parents.

From experience of having two sons away from God I can promise you we are very concerned and they know full well we oppose their use of porn, adultery, lying and just being away from God. Any amount of religion will not cancel out this lifestyle unless there is repentance - a forsaking of all known sin. To soft pedal sin because my child is involved is to invite deception. And God is not going to look the other way just because this is MY child. Sin is sin regardless who commits it. God does not play favorites.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/1/22 20:08Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re:

You are right ginnyrose, but my point is that we are all God's children and deserve the same love and compassion and mercy, along with correction and discipline we give our own children.

God dealt with me a long time ago about the fact that I forgave my children almost immediately when they said something hurtful, but I held on to it if it was my husband.

So my heart is to show the same compassion for all that I would show my own kids without condoning their sin. I would just speak the truth in love to them and not blast them as someone I don't give a hoot about.


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KLC

 2010/1/22 23:56Profile





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