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I listened to this sermon and agree with the action he says to take, as far as standing on the word, praying, etc. My question comes with the theory behind it: the devil seems to take an omnipresent role where he is able to torment all believers (and lost?) all over the world at the same time. Every evil, deceptive thought seems to be attributed to the devil. To me this doesn't make sense. The devil is not omnipresent, so how can we credit him for every thought we have? Unless he is the mastermind of an evil organized empire and sends his poisonous seeds down through his demon subjects who then deliver them to their recipients, I just don't get it.
To me the Word (and this message highlights it), says that Satan only has a foothold in your life if he has asked God to do it or if you're lost and are blinded in general to the things of God.
There was another thread about giving the devil too much credit: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32212&forum=36&6]Thread[/url]
I don't think the case that he has all this power has been sufficiently proved. There is so much scripture of satan having power over people, but it's all pre-conversion. After that, I think our battle lies not primarily with satan (as he can still mess with you with God's permission like he did with Job and Peter) but with our flesh (like Romans outlines: the devil being mentioned only once in chapter 16 opposed to our flesh and our behavior being mentioned abundantly throughout). I understand this sermon is built on James 4:7 which says to resist the devil, and so there is truth here.
| 2010/1/20 13:15||Profile|
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I totally agree with you Giggles in what you are saying. I listened to his sermon and thought it was very good, but for some reason felt that he put the cart before the horse. I mean, the scripture he reference was James 4:7 and it stated to submit to God, resist the Devil and he WILL flee from you. To me, I want to really know how to submit to God first. That is my weakness, my obiediance to God. So to me, we must first submit fully to God if we expect Satan to flee. With out total submission we can't have the second part of that promise.
I also believe that every circumstance in life is allowed by God. I also believe the promise in Romans 8:28. So if my wife pushes my buttons, and if I hold true to my submittle to God, I won't get angry or frustrated, and my wife will see fruit of that. Or if a am driving 60mph down the highway and suddenly see a huge chunk of concrete in my way, running over it and blowing out one tire...damaging a second. I won't get angry at the person who's pulled over picking up the pieces he dropped off his truck, but I can ask God what He's trying to teach me or that other person through this situation. (true story)
| 2010/1/25 1:40||Profile|
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by Giggles on 2010/1/20 15:15:41 I listened to this sermon and agree with the action he says to take, as far as standing on the word, praying, etc. My question comes with the theory behind it: the devil seems to take an omnipresent role where he is able to torment all believers (and lost?) all over the world at the same time. Every evil, deceptive thought seems to be attributed to the devil. To me this doesn't make sense. The devil is not omnipresent, so how can we credit him for every thought we have? Unless he is the mastermind of an evil organized empire and sends his poisonous seeds down through his demon subjects who then deliver them to their recipients, I just don't get it.
Just listened to this message, which is very good and generally gives a balanced teaching on spiritual warfare.
It did raise in me similar questions as pointed out above by 'Giggles'. In particular it was said (and most Christians say this) that a lot of thoughts in our mind are not our thoughts, but are put there by Satan. Things like 'your not forgiven', God is not real', Jesus did not rise from the dead' etc, etc. My question would be, is it really Satan or his demons that are speaking to our minds? How can he/they get access to our minds and do that?
Obviously it is Satan behind all lies and unbelief, as 'he is the god of this world' and the whole world is under his deception. But I think it IS our thoughts and that have been affected and conditioned by the general philosophy of this world and ultimately it's god (Satan). This happens when our fleshly desires are alloowed to rise up and have an opinion.
What do you think??
| 2010/1/25 13:07||Profile|
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when a christian is walking in the will of God, nothing that God does not allow can touch him, not even one single thought. But obviously, the Lord allows many things to touch His children, to test them, prove their faith that they might come forth as gold. One of his pruning instruments is satan and his demons. One way they work is through thoughts and if we receive and believe the lies of the enemy, he can gain a stronghold in our lives. By the power of the cross and the blood of Jesus these lies and strongholds can be broken. The fall of man in the garden began with the snake SPEAKING to Eve... Things have not changed, the enemy speaks all the time to Gods children trying to deceive, discourage, condemn, lie. He is the accuser of the brethren. Thats why Paul said to take EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE that exalts against the knowledge of God.
| 2010/1/25 17:10||Profile|
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Great stuff here...I agree with the last two posters. I don't really recall if Mr. Greening spoke about some of the things we have in this dicussion regarding spiritual warfare.
I tend to think there are several voices in our minds; the world, "Satan", God and our flesh. My flesh brings things to mind that don't need Satan's influence to cause me to stumble. Our own flesh will do a number on us unless we die to ourselve every day. A lesson that I'm struggling with daily.
You all have shared very encouraging words. God Bless.
| 2010/1/26 2:46||Profile|
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I just ran across this from Ray Stedman.
ON BINDING SATAN
Ray C. Stedman
After pastoring for forty years I can state unequivocally that the most common cause of spiritual weakness in a Christian (or a church) is a failure to recognize the flesh in its disguise of religious zeal. Like Peter flashing a sword in Gethsemane the fleshly Christian thinks he is doing God's will and fighting God's battles for him.
Perhaps one of the commonest expressions of this misguided zeal is the practice of "binding Satan" before Christian ministry is attempted. The Word of God gives no justification for this practice. None of the apostles utilized this approach and no Scripture commands Christians to practice it. It is an extra-biblical performance, arising from the desire of the flesh to look committed and powerful in the service of God. Christians are told to "resist the devil" but never to bind him. Resisting the devil is done by putting on the whole armor of God, as Paul describes it in Ephesians 6. The "binding and loosing" mentioned in Matthew 18:18 refers to the agreement in prayer of believers in line with the promises of God revealed in his Word.
Another form of this same error is to ascribe the manifestations of the flesh to the work of demons, which then are ostensibly "cast out" of an individual through a "deliverance ministry." But Galatians 5:19-21 clearly tell us that lust, hatred, discord, jealousy, rage, envy, sexual orgies, and the like are not the work of demons but of the flesh. It is impossible to "cast out" the flesh during this lifetime---rather it is to be subdued by recognizing its evil character, refusing to yield mind or body to its impulses, and turning immediately to Jesus for the supply of his strength and purity, as Romans 6:13 so clearly outlines.
It is plainly the work of pastors and teachers to help Christians identify the flesh in themselves, by means of the Word of God, and to follow the pattern the Word describes to keep the flesh in subjection to the spirit and the individual free to live as the Lord has already made provision to do.
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery" (Gal. 5:1).
| 2010/1/27 12:11||Profile|
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good post hoohoou
| 2010/1/27 12:21||Profile|
| Re: Resist the Devil|
One of the ladies I regularly pray/fellowship with sent me a text saying I should listen to this. The particular reason she suggested was because a few of us are considering how we've gone beyond way beyond what scripture SAYS to do in serving God. (Dare I say--how we THINK we're serving God?)
Anyhow, in this case he was speaking of rebuking the devil, etc., but there could be many things you might list that fall into the category of things God hasn't specifically ASKED us to do.
I saw how in many many regards I was doing this, going beyond what was ever asked, but NOT doing what WAS asked. You know...like being holy. It's kind of like sanctification is one thing you do, along with ladies craft night.
So I've really taken a peculiar stance in that I am attempting to stick ONLY with what scripture says to do. It's surprising the kickback I get from people.
I believe there are many imaginations that have exalted themselves against the knowledge of God in what we call church. It's been painful to figure this out...I'm praying that these imaginations will be demolished.
| 2010/1/27 14:35||Profile|