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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I do believe such a person can be demon oppressed or be under attack. I also believe one can fall away so I would say that if a person falls away they could become demon possessed at that point. I'm sure this will really open up a can of worms.


There is also this sobering verse: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2Co 11:3-4 KJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/10/6 11:59Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Would 'receive' be a better term?


I think 'receiving the Spirit' would be even better. ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/10/6 12:01Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

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I have the information stored upstairs although the source is foggy. I believe it is from "An Instrument of Revival" - Roberts Biography. When I go home for lunch I will search for an exact reference for you though.


Thank you so much brother Jeff! I would appreciate if you could find it for me. As for the book "War on the Saints" would you be willing to go through it with me? I wouldnt mind starting a thread and go through it and we could determine prayerfully the things to hold onto?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/6 12:02Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Brother Greg,
I found the quote I was telling you about. It is from "An Instrument of Revival: The complete life of Evan Roberts 1878-1951. Which I must say, is a fantastic book, which has had a TREMENDOUS impact on my life. I was a bit off in my quote, however, I should have looked for the source before quoting. Here it is . . .
"Only a year after the manual (War on the Saints) appeared, Evan Roberts told some friends that it had been a failed weapon which had confused and divided the Lord's people. It was too negative, he said, and there needed to be another book on life in the Spirit."

So most likely instead of an outright denunciation of the book, it seems that he more regretted the spirit in which it was written as well as the ill-effects it had upon the body at large. Including the great confusion it brought upon many of the young Welsh revival converts.

I would be more than happy to go through the book with you. I'm not able to be online all that often, a few times during the week while I'm at work. But I will go through it. Thanks again for your ministry!
Blessings,

Jeff


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Jeff

 2004/10/6 12:52Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Brother Greg,
Here is a more detailed quote from the book . . .
"It is claimed that Mrs Penn Lewis used Evan’s name to propagate her own ministry and message. She supposedly convinced him he was deceived by evil spirits and, over the next few years co-authorised with Evan “War on the Saints”, which was published in 1913. This book clearly delineates the confusion she had drawn Evan into. It left its readers totally wary of any spiritual phenomena of any kind or degree. Rather than giving clear guidelines regarding discerning satanic powers, it brought into question anything that may be considered, or that might be described, as Holy Spirit activity. Within a year of its publication, Evan Roberts denounced it, telling friends that it had been a failed weapon which had confused and divided the Lord’s people."


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Jeff

 2004/10/6 13:13Profile
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So most likely instead of an outright denunciation of the book, it seems that he more regretted the spirit in which it was written as well as the ill-effects it had upon the body at large. Including the great confusion it brought upon many of the young Welsh revival converts.


See here is the problem brother. The quote from the book is not exact but could be their opinion of what evan roberts believed, and then in turn you did the same thing and if someone read your quote above they would be getting a much different picture than roberts wanted to get across. It is a negative book but focuses with very much for a good reason on certain aspects. Its not an inclusive book but rather part of the picture. To read a book on the life of the spirit by penn-lewis afterwards would be good.

Quote:
I would be more than happy to go through the book with you. I'm not able to be online all that often, a few times during the week while I'm at work. But I will go through it. Thanks again for your ministry!


Sounds great brother I will start a thread in the "revival section" of the forums. It will be nice to review it again. Do you have an original version of the book? there are some dubious reprintings that take out and change things.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/6 13:16Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
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 Re:



ac·cept
Function: verb
1 a : to receive willingly b : to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added)
2 : to give admittance or approval to
3 a : to endure without protest or reaction b : to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable. c : to recognize as true : BELIEVE
4 a : to make a favorable response to b : to agree to undertake (a responsibility)
5 : to assume an obligation to pay; also : to take in payment
6 : to receive (a legislative report) officially
intransitive senses : to receive favorably something offered

re·ceive
Function: verb
1 : to come into possession of : ACQUIRE
2 a : to act as a receptacle or container for . b : to assimilate through the mind or senses
3 a : to permit to enter : ADMIT b : WELCOME, GREET c : to react to in a specified manner
4 : to accept as authoritative, true, or accurate : BELIEVE
5 a : to support the weight or pressure of : BEAR b : to take (a mark or impression) from the weight of something c : ACQUIRE, EXPERIENCE
1 : to be a recipient
2 : to be at home to visitors
3 : to convert incoming radio waves into perceptible signals
4 : to prepare to take possession of the ball from a kick in football.

My God brother Ron ...

All this discussion about whether it's "accept" Christ, or "recieve" Christ? ... Bless God "recieve" sets better with you, man ... '0) ...

But i have to say that your whole exercise reminds me of the time when Christ told the Pharisees that they strained at gnats, while swallowing camels ...

 2004/10/6 13:23Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Brother Greg,
You are right on. I should not have presumptiously "quoted" something which I wasn't actually "quoting". I agree that I could have given people a false view of what a great man of God was trying to communicate. I apologize for that.
Blessings,

Jeff


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Jeff

 2004/10/6 13:29Profile
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You are right on. I should not have presumptiously "quoted" something which I wasn't actually "quoting". I agree that I could have given people a false view of what a great man of God was trying to communicate. I apologize for that.


But my comment was quite off towards this book being the best book on spiritual warfare because it only deals with specifics of the whole issue. So perhaps its a good piece of the puzzle but we need more materials to give a fuller picture of the doctrine. But the idea of not reading the book because its very small niche it addresses in the spiritual would be wrong also.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/10/6 13:40Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
But i have to say that your whole exercise reminds me of the time when Christ told the Pharisees that they strained at gnats, while swallowing camels


With reference to this particular thread I would spit out both gnats and camels. The point I was making was not to do with the difference between 'accept' and 'receive'; that would just be a grammatical nicety and is of no special interest to me.

My issue was that neither 'accepting Christ' nor 'receiving Christ', as evangelicals use the phrases', have biblical foundations. They only mean what we want them to mean and have no Bible definitions. So you can take your pick and use either; its just that you can't use the Bible to define either of them as regards becoming 'His'.

BTW never use an ordinary dictionary to define Bible words they will often lead you astray.

On the words dechomai and lambano as raised by another poster, it is difficult to distinguish between them clearly. My old Biblical Greek lecturer used to say that dechomai was more passive and lambano more active. He was a classics scholar and that might be more true for classical Greek than Biblical Greek.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/10/6 14:06Profile





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