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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Forgiving Yourself

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MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Ginnyrose

I was actually sharing this thread with my husband tonight. I asked him what he thought about the term forgiving yourself. He said that to him forgiving yourself(after seeking Gods forgiveness) is the same as letting go of the sin and walking in His forgiveness.
Edited
God Bless
mj

 2010/1/13 23:23Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings BeYeDoers

Quote:
I am warning about how we communicate biblical truth.



My husband did say he saw the wisdom in this warning also. He did agree that when talking with unsaved people we do need to chose our words carefully.

God Bless
mj

 2010/1/13 23:25Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

I find this idea that 'forgiving oneself' is a new-age term strange. Seems to me this idea was around before I ever heard of new-age. Anyhow, be that as it may...

So you do not want to call it 'forgiving oneself' but 'despair. Makes me no difference. Call it what you will, it is the idea I am concerned about.

Let me share a case in point. I am 62 YO, birthed 5 children of whom all have grown to adulthood. Some are walking with the LORD and couple are not. As I look back on their childhood, I greatly regret some things I did. Most are rooted in being so dreadfully human, but I could have done better. I was weak because I was so tired so much. I was not sensitive enough to know my child's needs and then work to meet them. I grieve for my failures. And the enemy will work to exaggerate my memories. And then I wonder if these things are a cause for two of my children to spurn the LORD?

Then I noticed something in the WORD. God parented Adam and Eve. They had a perfect parent, perfect environment, everything perfect. But they still disobeyed God and God had to discipline them by making them wear clothes and sent them out of the home He had provided for them. He made life hard, difficult for them: males work by the sweat of their brow and women have pain in childbirth and are to serve their husbands. Human nature is selfish, thinks only about his own personal desires and pursues its satisfaction at all levels. This is why humans sin. Adam and Eve sinned with outside provocation; people since then sin because of a fallen human nature. So, maybe, my failures as a mom were not as profound as the devil would have me to believe else why did some children choose to serve God?

(Son #3 has told me how he had the opportunity to use alcohol and I do not know what all, but he said he chose not to in contrast to his brother 3 years younger. How can that happen? Both had the same teaching.)

This is exposing some of the trials a parent encounters after the children have left the nest, and are some of the issues elderly parents have to deal with.

Do I forgive myself? I have to. I cannot wallow around in self-pity, whipping myself with guilt. God knows I have repented, and have worked hard to make amends, but one still wonders in moments of realizing the awfulness of the eternal destiny of those that spurn Him.....

ginnyrose

EDIT: To those who do not like the term 'forgiving oneself' what would you call the idea I just presented? Seems to me 'forgiving oneself' describes it perfectly.


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Sandra Miller

 2010/1/14 0:22Profile
JoanM
Member



Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re: Forgiving Yourself

I think it is valuable to examine this idea as it occurs in reality before God. This is what I have witnessed of people being freed from this: “I just can't forgive my self”. They have experienced it in varying degrees. Some hounded by it, others returning to the “re-experience of guilt” just periodically (“a wave of guilt” returning apropos of nothing). Some never having experienced the forgiveness of God on the issue, eventually came up with the idea it must that they have not forgiven themselves. It has also become a popular idea in “Christian psychology” circles. I will list what I have learned from examples of people that got this resolved.

“I just can't forgive my self”: You are correct. You cannot forgive yourself. Only God can forgive. We can seek/receive the forgiveness of God for sin when the Holy Spirit has convicted us of SIN (forgiveness is with respect to sin alone). You can seek reconciliation with the one you sinned against. They may or may not be able to forgive you (their level of maturity/Christ-likeness). When the Holy Spirit has directed you to seek reconciliation and you have obeyed in identifying your sin and asking their forgiveness, their forgiveness of you is between them and God alone.

How is it that you cannot forgive yourself regarding one specific sin, while that was not a problem with so many others? That should be a tip-off something is askew.

So whatever can/does it mean that when God has forgiven us of SIN, and we say or experience “I just can't forgive my self”? From what I have witnessed it is worth examining ourselves in these circumstances. Do you have a higher standard than God? Who has the authority and power to forgive sin. What does it mean to seek forgiveness from self? Exactly how likely is the religious old man to forgive you, let alone be able to (this is a renewed mind issue). Put another way: Who is the “I” in that sentence and who is the “self,”

Did God direct reconciliation/restitution which was not obeyed (saying no to God, pride interfering with humility, etc. which effects our experience and can confuse)? How clear and specific was the conviction of sin AS SIN?

This can be a faith/doubt issue involved regarding God's forgiveness. How far is the east from the west if we can hold onto what God has cast away. Was there thanking God for his forgiveness (thanking is the first step of faith when forgiveness, or anything, is received). We should not forget discerning the accuser of the brethren and the shield of faith.

Once in a case of forgiveness regarding abortion, there was a confusion of guilt regarding not giving testimony of forgiveness blocking/refusing God's working together all things for good (Romans 8:28). After testimony, a wonderful ministry opened to this woman. Her experience of “guilt” had nothing to do with “forgiving herself.”

I can recall one unusual example in which the person was often reminded of their having not forgiven another, in the midst of repeatedly seeking forgiveness for their sin. They had repeated experience of receiving God's forgiveness (or comfort regarding that) but it seemed temporary as the experience of guilt returned. When they dealt with their un-forgiveness as sin, the issue was settled. I thought this was a wonderful example of God teaching Mathew 6: 14-15 to a “stubborn” child of God.

[b]I am persuaded by the Word of God and by the works of God I have seen that the forgiveness of God is complete.[/b] I think every case is extremely specific and revealable only by the Holy Spirit of God to the individual. Things I have seen involved include growth in Him, continued renewing the mind on some specific Truth, and greater freedom from bondage. Is this not always the case with us?

I know others like Twayneb posted similar ideas, and as I post this I see there are many other posts here that I have not read. These come from testimony. Hope they help.

 2010/1/14 3:01Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

My original question was "The concept of self-forgiveness is not a Biblical one, the Bible does not teach it". Are you saying is not true? Is this correct? That all sin which is under the blood, forgiven by God, must also be forgiven by the individual? Is this what you are saying?

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/1/14 9:34Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

My thoughts to everyone!

I haven’t been on here in a while and wasn’t going to come back on but this thread has compelled me to do so.

I believe that to forgive self is not biblical because there is never any mention of it in scripture. We have no right to ourselves. We are bought with a price and not our own. We are told to deny ourselves. We only have one Lord and master to whom we are to give an account. All sin is against God primarily and we need only to seek his forgiveness by confessing to Him who is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness by the precious blood of Christ. We are also to ask the forgiveness of others whom we have wrong and also to forgive others who have wronged us because we have been forgiven by our Lord. We are only free from condemnation by believing in our Lord’s promise of forgiveness to us. Our freedom from condemnation is never based on others forgiving us or us forgiving ourselves because we are only to have one Lord over us.

We are not to live unto ourselves any more but unto him who died for us and rose again.
A failure to fully believe in the cleansing blood of Christ for all sin is the only reason one would not be totally free from guilt. We must believe God’s word concerning sin and forgiveness so that he can totally free us from ourselves. We should never resurrect the old man, he does not need forgiveness for he was crucified with Christ. We are not supposed to make our old man feel better; we are to put our old self off.

Blessings to all!

 2010/1/14 10:25Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Ginny, what I am saying is that what you are doing is NOT forgiving yourself. What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair. The issue is that the one offended forgives.

Do you understand where I am going? Sin needs forgiven. You don't sin against yourself. So therefore "forgiving yourself" is meaningless. Only in a society where you are your own God do you forgive yourself and move on. You are discussing what do we do with the feelings accompanying our sin. Feelings have nothing to do with forgiveness.

I'm not trying to pick a fight :-)
Just trying to make sure we are clear not only with how we handle sin, but how we communicate that. Communication will affect our theology.


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Denver McDaniel

 2010/1/14 11:04Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
My original question was "The concept of self-forgiveness is not a Biblical one, the Bible does not teach it". Are you saying is not true? Is this correct? That all sin which is under the blood, forgiven by God, must also be forgiven by the individual? Is this what you are saying?



Are you asking if both God and myself must forgive me if I am to stand forgiven???


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Travis

 2010/1/14 18:22Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I think I understand what you are all saying, and I don't think we disagree in what is going on. But we have to be careful how we couch it. We are discussing biblical issues but using psychological and emotional language. Forgiveness and guilt have nothing to do with how we feel. The terminology of "forgiving yourself" is loaded with all kinds of errors rooted in postmodernism/new age philosophy. What you all are describing (I think) is how do we deal with the despair that can go along with sin. The answer to that is to recognize, believe, and walk in the truth of scripture: that God forgives those who are in Christ and will remove their sins far from them. Again, I don't think we are disagreeing about anything (at least in Christian Practice), but I am warning about how we communicate biblical truth.



Brother is this ever true. It is difficult to discuss things even on SI because when one uses "church" terminology of any sort, the words are pre-loaded with various meanings depending on the theology one is brought up under. I find myself having to carefully define terms, and even that is not enough to avoid passing each other in a conversation because we are not on the same set of tracks. The point I was trying to make was merely this. Once God has forgiven me, I need not carry that thing around, enforcing shame and condemnation on myself. To do so is to frustrate the grace of God.

Travis.


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Travis

 2010/1/14 18:26Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Ginny, what I am saying is that what you are doing is NOT forgiving yourself. What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair. The issue is that the one offended forgives.



Beyedoers: I think you said what I was saying better than I was saying it. I would call this forgiving yourself, or at least releasing yourself from it (to get rid of the "loaded" term forgiveness).

Travis


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Travis

 2010/1/14 18:28Profile





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