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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : When does 1000 years mean 1000 years

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Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Well Dave, we'll just keep walking together toward the Light. In due time we'll both be seeing more clearly. :)



AD, Thanks I agree we can do that!


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Dave

 2009/12/28 15:24Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Deepthinker wrote:

Quote:
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 PE 3:8)This section of scripture is not saying that God reckons time as so much smaller a deal than mankind does, since God is eternal. It is not saying anything of the sort! This is a famous distortion of scripture.



I don't think I said that God saw it as a smaller matter. However God is not bound by time (He is outside time), so from God's perspective He is not slow (slack), but right on time and longsuffering. However we see it as a long time from our perspective. You know to a 5 year old child a week is a long time to wait for smomething, but for us oldies it is very short! Even to us mortals time is relative to how long we have lived. How much more is time meaningless to a God who dwells in Eternity! The great I AM.

Quote:
This is speaking about the veracity of God's promises based upon whether or not they can stand the test of time. Peter said that it is ridiculous to doubt the Lord's coming on the basis that the duration of time since the promise was given has been so long that "our fathers fell asleep". Peter explained that God's promises are not weakened as time passes before they are fulfilled. God is able to ensure that a promise is kept whether a day passes for the fulfillment or one thousand years. The amount of time that has elapsed since God made a promise does not affect the possibility of that promise coming to pass one iota.

I totally agree with this as well as the point I made above. One does not discount the other.

Quote:
But this passage in no way is telling us that God's calendar looks at one day as we would regard one thousand years. It is contrasting long periods of time with short periods of time -- one thousand years as opposed to a day -- and is saying that the assurance of the promise being fulfilled is the same whether one day has passed or one thousand years has passed. This is not saying God sees one thousand years as one day.

The scripture says 'with the Lord one day is AS a thousand years' The word AS (gr.hōs) means like or in the same manner as, NOT contrast. So with the Lord one day is like a thousand years as I explained above.

Quote:
It is absolutely irrelevant for the Lord to note a frame of reference according to His eternal oversight when speaking to men. To say that Revelation's references to the Lord coming "quickly" are spoken from God's viewpoint, who considers millennia as we do mere days, is to imply that God forgets about our perspective, and ignores our limitations of thought. If a proposed "quick" coming meant two thousand years, since two thousand years is hardly no time at all in the mind of a God who has no limitations with time as we do, then all other divinely inspired references in the Bible of a quick coming "at hand" must refer to approximately refer to two thousand years as well

However in this passage Peter goes on to tell us that the day of the Lord will come with the heavens passing away and the elements melting with fervent heat. 2 Peter 3:10. We know this has not happened yet and it has been almost 2 thousand years. So we accept that God has said(through Peter) through this long time we (all christians) should be looking for and hastening this day. 2 Peter 3:12. We have to understand that God's word is eternal and not just written for those at that time it was written, but speaks to us now. Scipture seems to indicate that God wanted Christian's in all ages have an expectation of His sudden return and to always watch and be ready. It is this that should keep the church alert,awake and holy. 2 Peter 3:11. Matthew 24:42


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Dave

 2009/12/28 16:02Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Deepthinker said..

Quote:
If a proposed "quick" coming meant two thousand years, since two thousand years is hardly no time at all in the mind of a God who has no limitations with time as we do, then all other divinely inspired references in the Bible of a quick coming "at hand" must refer to approximately refer to two thousand years as well.

This is illogical thinking. The point is any time God determines to fulfill his prophetic agenda is the same to Him.

Now is their a precedent that we can see in scripture regarding prophecy having been fulfilled much later than it suggested at the time? Here are some examples...
Isaiah 60:1-3 ; Isaiah 61:1-3 ; Jeremiah 31:31. These were not fulfilled for about 300 years. What about Genesis 3:15 which took 4 thousand years to be fulfilled! But consider this... with God it was done when He said it, because Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the earth.

We also need to understand prophecy in the way the Jewish believers did. They considered prophecy not to be a one time only fulfillment but an ongoing pattern of fulfillments with an ultimate end fulfillment. This is what is called Midrash interpretation (see this link for understanding http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm).

You can see this in Daniel 9:27 where a 'prince' (antichrist) is prophecied about. This was fulfilled in the days of the Greek leader Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, but Jesus in His day said it was yet to come (Matt 24:15) and it was fulfilled again in the days of the Romans in AD70, but it will ultimately be fulfilled in the final last days with the antichrist as described in Revelation 13 (written in AD90).

So dispensationalism misses the point by fixing all prophecy into a one time fulfillment and historisism make the mistake of saying it has all be fulfilled around the time it was written. This not how it would have been understood by those Jewish believers in the past.


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Dave

 2009/12/29 4:41Profile





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