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Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 When does 1000 years mean 1000 years

I'm not trying to be contentious here, but honestly would like to know how and why people don't take the idea of a literal millenium.

The only place the millenium (in terms of a 1000 year time period) is mentioned is in Revelation 20:4-7. but it says '1000 years' FOUR times in this passage. Can it really be that this is not meant to be taken literally?

In 2 Peter 3:8 it says 'with the Lord one day is as a thousand years'. but in context this is talking about how God views time and to him it is no time. But from the human perspective a thousand years is a thousand years and a long time! It is not saying a day or a thousand years is not literally that.

Let me know your yhoughts on this. I especially want to hear from those who do not take a literal view of this as I want to understand your position so I can consider if it makes sense(not to argue).

Every blessing.


_________________
Dave

 2009/12/24 5:55Profile









 Re: When does 1000 years mean 1000 years

An honest and interesting question. I'm not close to being a bible scholar. I don't have any scriptures that I could think of as examples. I will say though that I think there are alot of Old Testament verses that might be "symbolic" with the years that it mentions.

For example, it'll say 15 weeks but it'll mean 15 years.

I think you may want to use the entire Bible to try to understand this. That's what I'd do. It's weird that Scripture just isn't literal 100% of the time. :-(

 2009/12/24 11:11
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
I think you may want to use the entire Bible to try to understand this. That's what I'd do. It's weird that Scripture just isn't literal 100% of the time.


It can be frustrating, but God intended for the Bible to be that way -- to separate the chaff from the wheat. It takes effort to understand Scripture, and only those who truly seek are willing to exert the effort (prayer, meditation, humility, submission to the Spirit).

[i]Mt 13:10-14 The disciples came to him and asked, [color=CC3300]“Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: 'Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.' In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.' "[/color][/i]

As far as the question regarding Biblical time is concerned, the Lord has been literal sometimes and symbolic sometimes, so we are left in the position of having to trust, wait, and pray.

 2009/12/24 11:23Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: When does 1000 years mean 1000 years

I have always seen this thousand years to be literal. I have found that when scripture is not intended to be taken literally (whether figuratively or allegorically), it is usually pretty clear that that is what is going on. Likewise when it is to be taken literally. Scripture is also its own best commentary, so one can usually find other scripture to help with that decision. It does require studying to show yourself approved...

Travis.


_________________
Travis

 2009/12/24 11:45Profile









 Re:Prophetic Time




To Heydave:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the
Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet 3:8)

The Above verse from 2nd Peter refers to God’s “Prophetic Time”

THE 7000 YEAR PLAN OF GOD

6 Days of Creation - 6000 Years; 7th Day Sabbath (Rest) - 1000 Years
(Millennium).

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
(Ps 90:4)

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(2 Pet 3:8)

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exod 20:11)

In Genesis and Exodus, we are told how God made all things in six days, and on the Seventh Day (Shabbat-Sabbath) He ceased from His labour. Why did He do this? God set up the seven-day Divine Plan within which the Messianic Redemption would be fulfilled according to the promise made to the Patriarch Abraham:

In Abraham's "SEED" shall ALL the nations of the earth be Blessed
(Gen 22:18) & (Gen 26:4).

God foreknew precisely what He was going to accomplish before His Divine Plan of Redemption was commenced.

[b]I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me,DECLARING THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executes My counsel from a far country: yea, I HAVE SPOKEN IT, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT. [/b]
(Isa 46:8-11)

Unto me, the most inferior of all saints, was this Grace given, that I should preach among the nations the unsearchable riches of the Christ, and to enlighten all to the administration of THE MYSTERY WHICH HAS BEEN HIDDEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD BY GOD, who Created all things through Jesus Christ; according to THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES which he purposed in Jesus Christ, our Lord. (Eph 3:8-9,11)

[color=990000][b]God's Creation was to echo Redemption by defining a "day" as 1000 years (Ps 90:4) & (2 Pet 3:8)- quoted above. From beginning to end, it was determined by God that mankind was to have only 6 "days" (6000 years) to live out his time on earth. On the Seventh Day, the "Day" of the Lord (Millennium), God Himself would intervene into human affairs and usher-in the Kingdom of God on the earth.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. [/color][/b]
(Matt 6:9-13)

[b]THE GOOD NEWS

What is the Good News or Gospel? The good news is that after the 6 "days" are completed, God will begin "restoring" the earth to paradise and those Chosen of mankind to immortality. God's Plan is to re-create the Heavens and the earth and those of us who are redeemed in Jesus Christ (HaMashiach) will inherit the new creation:

For, behold, I create the new Heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Isa 65:17

Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for the new Heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells Righteousness. 2 Pet 3:13

The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShanah) also has the distinction of being called "New Year's Day". We KNOW that Resurrection Day occurs on year 6000
precisely - it will be Rosh HaShanah 6000 ! Notice the symbolism of the Feast of Trumpets:

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for
THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51-52)

And He shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they shall gather together His Elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven
to the other. (Matt 24:31)

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in Heaven: and thefirst voice which I heard was as it were of A TRUMPET talking with me;
which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will show you things which must be hereafter. (Rev 4:1)

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)[/b]

[color=990000][b]What did some of the early Church Fathers believe?

Irenaeus 150 A.D. (was trained by Polycarp who was trained by John who wrote the Book of Revelation).Quote is from "Against Heresies" Book 5,28,3:For in as many days as this world was made,in so many thousand years shall it be concluded.
"This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come.For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years-and in six days created things were completed;it is evident therefore, that they will come to an end at the six thousandth year."

Cyprian 250 A.D. (archchampion of orthodox Christianity against heresies)"The Treatises Of Cyprian" Chapter 11: The first seven days in the Divine arrangement contain seven thousand years.[/color][/b]


Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

Heydave wrote:
I'm not trying to be contentious here, but honestly would like to know how and why people don't take the idea of a literal millenium.

The only place the millenium (in terms of a 1000 year time period) is mentioned is in Revelation 20:4-7. but it says '1000 years' FOUR times in this passage. Can it really be that this is not meant to be taken literally?

In 2 Peter 3:8 it says 'with the Lord one day is as a thousand years'. but in context this is talking about how God views time and to him it is no time. But from the human perspective a thousand years is a thousand years and a long time! It is not saying a day or a thousand years is not literally that.

Let me know your yhoughts on this. I especially want to hear from those who do not take a literal view of this as I want to understand your position so I can consider if it makes sense(not to argue).

Every blessing.

 2009/12/24 11:51
Giggles
Member



Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Interesting post Waltern. From this and your post in the End-Time View thread, I presume you hold a pre-mil, mid-trib view?


_________________
Paul

 2009/12/24 14:25Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Thanks to the pre-millenialists for your input.
I like this point by twayneb:

Quote:
I have always seen this thousand years to be literal. I have found that when scripture is not intended to be taken literally (whether figuratively or allegorically), it is usually pretty clear that that is what is going on. Likewise when it is to be taken literally. Scripture is also its own best commentary, so one can usually find other scripture to help with that decision. It does require studying to show yourself approved...

But I would like those of you who do not hold to a literal 1000 years to give me some reasons why you don't agree with the above.
Thanks.


_________________
Dave

 2009/12/24 15:33Profile









 Re:



Dear Giggles:

I hold the Pre-mil, Pre-Trib view. I can support that by Scripture, if anyone is interested.

God bless, and Merry Christmas to everyone!!

Walter

Quote:

Giggles wrote:
Interesting post Waltern. From this and your post in the End-Time View thread, I presume you hold a pre-mil, mid-trib view?

 2009/12/24 16:16
Giggles
Member



Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Quote:

waltern wrote:

Dear Giggles:

I hold the Pre-mil, Pre-Trib view. I can support that by Scripture, if anyone is interested.

God bless, and Merry Christmas to everyone!!

Walter



I am indeed :)


_________________
Paul

 2009/12/24 17:06Profile









 Re: When does 1000 years mean 1000 years

Those who hold to the Pre-Trib rapture must first find out where the 7 years of Great Tribulation is in scripture to support that teaching. Now Paul said through much Tribulation we enter the kingdom of God. Jesus said in Revelation that one of the Churches would receive 10 days of tribulation. But to find 7 years of "Great Tribulation" is not in our bible. C.I.Scofield had a bible printed so that he could insert that idea into the bible students mind way back in the day. So the introduction of the 7 years of "Great Tribulation" was born. It's only an idea, and it's NOT scripture.

Know what you believe!

 2009/12/24 17:52





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