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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are YOU Holy?

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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Hey Colin: No offense taken brother. What you defined in your post won't take place until Christ returns and our salvation is 100% complete. Spirit, Soul, and Body. If you are waiting until you reach some state of flawless perfection in your mind, will, and emotions, then I am afraid you are never going to be able to fully enjoy the benefits of your salvation. You will never be able to walk in confidence and faith in the way that God intends. I never claimed to be holy in my own right. I surrendered myself to the word of God and claimed of myself only what the word proclaims about me. When I was born again, I put on the new man which, according the word, is created in righteousness and true holiness. I would direct you to 1 Peter 2. According to Titus 1:8, unless men can be holy then eldership in the body of Christ is impossible. In 1 Thess. 5, Paul charges that his letter be read to all of the holy bretheren in Thessaloniaca. According to Col. 3:12, the elect of God are holy, and beloved of God. Col. 1:22 says that the very purpose of Christ's sacrifice was to present me holy before God. Ephesians 1:4 says that God ordained our holiness before the foundation of the world.

Holiness is not a state of perfection where one never again struggles with sin. Jesus was holy, yet He was in ALL points tempted like as to us. This temptation had to be legitimate or Heb. 4:15 is disingenuous.

Holiness is a beautiful fruit that grows out of the root of a righteous spirit. It is the visible result of an obedient heart. It is a perpetual yes in our spirit toward whatever God requires.

Travis.


_________________
Travis

 2009/12/22 18:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Holiness is a beautiful fruit that grows out of the root of a righteous spirit. It is the visible result of an obedient heart. It is a perpetual yes in our spirit toward whatever God requires.

Sweet Words!

 2009/12/22 21:52
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:



Quote:
Twayneb wrote

Holiness is not a state of perfection where one never again struggles with sin. Jesus was holy, yet He was in ALL points tempted like as to us. This temptation had to be legitimate or Heb. 4:15 is disingenuous.



There is a difference between being tempted and sinning, being tempted to sin is not sin. Sin is when you give in to the temptation and commit the act in thought or deed. There will always be temptation, sufferings, testing and trails to endure in this life.

What I am trying to put across is not sinless perfection but being spiritually minded Roms 8:6. Not just justified and regenerated but purified and sanctified made Holy.

Quote:
Twayneb wrote

Holiness is a beautiful fruit that grows out of the root of a righteous spirit. It is the visible result of an obedient heart. It is a perpetual yes in our spirit toward whatever God requires.



Sound a bit like Roms 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man but as with Paul we find that there is something that brings us into captivity.

Know in Romans you can see from verses you can see from

[b]Christ received in you[/b]

Roms 3:21 to Roms 4:25

[b]Judicially[/b], justification through the antonement and imputed righteousness of Christ.

Roms 5:1-11 [b]Experientially[/b], justification with God brings peace with God the love of God shed within by the Holy Spirit.

[b]Christ Revealed in you[/b]

Roms 5:12 to Roms 7:6 [b]Judicially[/b],, by transference from the headship of the Old man to that of the new man.

Roms 7:7 to Roms 8: 39 [b]Experientially[/b], “Sin that dwelleth in me” and “the wretched man” is now transformed into more than a conqueror.

Judicially Christ has paid the price so he can be received and revealed in you.

Getting back to my point above about what I am trying to say is that we have experienced justification with God and have peace with God, but have not experienced being transformed into more that a conqueror.

We can claim it judicially because Christ has paid the price “I put on the new man” but the reality is that we have not laid hold of it and we struggle inwardly against all manner of sin. The fact of the matter is that we are “the wretched man” because sin still dwells in us and until we get to the point where we surrender to God and his will for our life fully we will continue to be that “wretched man”

My dear friend do you know who “the wretched man” is it’s you, you’re the old man you are the one who needs to die, you need to die so that Christ can be revealed in you.

Have you got any ambitions, desires, pleasures that are not the will of God well my friend that’s the old man, do you find any anger, wrath, malice, bitterness shooting forth from the heart well that’s the old man.

How do we become Holy well the answer is easy it’s no longer you that lives that wretched old man he cannot and never will be Holy but because he is dead (Experientially), Christ now lives in you and he is Holy.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.


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Colin Murray

 2009/12/22 22:47Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Holiness is a beautiful fruit that grows out of the root of a righteous spirit. It is the visible result of an obedient heart. It is a perpetual yes in our spirit toward whatever God requires.



Love this!

The original question "Are you holy?" challenges me. Regardless what one says. more questions will arise. But Scripture says we are to be holy because God is holy. Since this is the case it is not an option but a command ...

I really appreciate this quote, Travis. It explains it well.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/12/22 23:58Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Holiness comes from the Christ that is in us. Love is the total fulfillment of the Law. How much love did it take for Christ to go to the cross for in He first loved us and gave Himself for us. This is our fulfillment in Christ by the Christ that is in us, and us being conformed to His Image. The old man fails, but the New man overcomes as Paul, speaks, "who will set me free from this body of sin"? Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 13:9-14 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

How do we accomplish this, even in our failure? Let us love as He loves, If we love Him we will keep His commandments. If we don't, we need more instruction from the Holy Spirit to the Love of Christ that is in us.

How are we Holy? By the Christ that the Father has birthed in us by His Incorruptable Seed, Jesus Christ. Now we are Holy because He is Holy.

So, put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and fulfill His commandment, Love one another as I have loved you.

In the Love and Holiness of the Christ that is in us" Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/12/23 13:56Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
There is a difference between being tempted and sinning, being tempted to sin is not sin. Sin is when you give in to the temptation and commit the act in thought or deed. There will always be temptation, sufferings, testing and trails to endure in this life.



Colin: True brother! When I talked about struggle, I meant the battle against temptation is a struggle.

Now, don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that a Christian can or should go off and live in sin that grace may abound. I think Paul dealt with that one pretty thoroughly as well. But some have made holiness out to be something that we have to attain through our own strength and effort. "Well, I must not be dead to sin and holy in God's sight because I gave in to a temptation today." Sin is simply missing the mark. It is falling short of God's standard. If holiness demands 100% perfection in the realm of resisting temptation, then no one is going to make it. Sure, we get pretty good at the big things, but what about the thoughts, the attitudes? How long must I dwell on a tempting thought before it becomes sin? One second, two seconds, a fraction of a second? What fraction? Just when does disappointment become bitterness from rejection? When was the last time you were self centered instead of selfless? Are these not sin? God is never self centered.

You see, we can split hairs all day long, much like the Pharisees and we can build our own definitions of what is acceptable and what is not. Jesus dealt with this in Matthew 5. Speaking to the common people he said that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will in no way enter the kingdom. This must have come a quite a blow to those people who venerated the Pharisees as in a class of holiness far beyond what they were capable of. Jesus then goes on to compare the outward standard of the law with the true standard of God's holiness and demonstrates that even the Pharisees fall short of it. He sums it up by saying that if you are going to get there by keeping laws, you must be perfect like God is perfect. Impossible. It is in that place of realization that my own righteousness and holiness are never going to be sufficient that I surrender to the righteousness of Christ. See Rom. 10:3.

You see, Paul also dealt with the idea that justification (righteousness) comes through grace but sanctification (holiness) comes through keeping the law in the book of Colossians. He says that we walk or continue in Christ the same way we received Christ (by faith). Col. 2:6. He really pounds this home throughout the book of Galatians, even saying that the church as Galatia has been bewitched.

So my righteousness and my holiness come the same way. By grace through faith. It is the grace of God that allows me to be holy. See Titus 2:12. Specifically though, holiness of life is a result of righteousness through faith. A righteous man desires holiness because righteousness is what he is.

I am not much for separating the work of God in a person's life with terms like judicially and experientially. It is as if we are saying, "God declared me to be holy so judicially that is what I am, but I fail to experience it sometimes so experientially I am not holy?" Such statements, to me, don't make sense. If God calls me holy, then I am regardless of what I see, hear, smell, taste, or feel. Now I am not saying these things in presumption, but rather in faith because I know I am born again. The terms used by the denomination I grew up in were, "sanctification in sentiment and sanctification in reality", but the concept was the same. Nowhere do I find this concept in the Bible. I either am or I am not. To me it is just that simple.

This being said, holiness in our outward man is a thing walked out day by day.

Recently God revealed and dealt with something in my heart that He showed me clearly was sin. It was an attitude that I had about who I was that stemmed from experiences of the past. I was saying things about myself that were in direct opposition to what God said about me. That is sin. I repented, and God brought a deliverance in me that was so sweet. So the question is, was I unholy before this event, and am I now holy. Was I less holy and now I am more holy. I say I am no more holy now than then. The attitude of repentance and submission to the word of God is an act of the holiness that is resident in me as a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Brother, how I love Gal. 2:20. Praise God it is not I that live but CHRIST IN ME!!! He is so precious.

Blessings brother

Travis


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Travis

 2009/12/23 14:27Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Good word Phillip.


_________________
Travis

 2009/12/23 14:33Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Travis wrote:

""Brother, how I love Gal. 2:20. Praise God it is not I that live but CHRIST IN ME!!! He is so precious.""

Most people do not think that the Cross of Christ was enough to procure their salvation. In other words, Jesus just did not die quite enough to make me Holy by He that is birthed in me, That New Creature in Christ Jesus. I have to add something to what the Cross lacks. What a prideful insinuation, that now it depends on me to finish the Work Christ didn't do enough of to make me Holy.

Travis, may I add to your favorite verse? Gal 2:20, mine to, with a companion verse unto our perfection.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Then on top of that, unto perfection;

Colossians 1:28-29 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

It is such a blessing for us brothers to know that Christ is in you, and seeing Him in you because I see Him in me.

What a wonder Christmas was, to bring forth a Son that would save all those that are headed for the Father's House.

In Him and most of all Him in us:

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/12/23 19:09Profile









 Re:

IV. CHRISTIAN HOLINESS

2012 "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him . . . For those whom he fore knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified."64

2013 "All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity."65 All are called to holiness: "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."66

In order to reach this perfection the faithful should use the strength dealt out to them by Christ's gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.67

2014 Spiritual progress tends toward ever more intimate union with Christ. This union is called "mystical" because it participates in the mystery of Christ through the sacraments - "the holy mysteries" - and, in him, in the mystery of the Holy Trinity. God calls us all to this intimate union with him, even if the special graces or extraordinary signs of this mystical life are granted only to some for the sake of manifesting the gratuitous gift given to all.

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:

He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.69

2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance and the recompense of God their Father for the good works accomplished with his grace in communion with Jesus.70 Keeping the same rule of life, believers share the "blessed hope" of those whom the divine mercy gathers into the "holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."71

 2009/12/29 23:56





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