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Silo
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Joined: 2009/11/11
Posts: 73


 What is "Permissible will"?

I was reading Oswald Chambers this morning and was wondering what you thought about this statement.

"God’s perfect will is unchangeable...God’s permissive will is the testing He uses to reveal His true sons and daughters."

What happens if I chose his permissive will on purpose...what exactly does that mean for me? Is this a salvation issue?

 2009/12/16 11:55Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: What is "Permissible will"?

Can you post the quote's larger context? Maybe the whole section?

With care in Christ...


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/12/16 13:02Profile
imnowhere
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Joined: 2009/8/1
Posts: 69


 Re: What is "Permissible will"?

The way I've heard it described (John Piper's sermon 'The 2 Wills of God' (?) is excellent) is that God's perfect will is the same as his 'decrees' in that they will come to pass. No one's 'will' will get in the way, nothing on earth will stop God's decrees from coming to pass (Is 46:10; Dan 4:35 etc). His passive will refers to his commandments that he puts forward that includes the law, but that he knows will be disobeyed or obeyed by man.

It is similar to a Father in his household who passively wills for his children to be obedient and on occasion decrees that they will do so, or decrees a scenario that he decides will happen, according to his ability and will to make it happen.

Piper's message explains this seeming dichotomy far better than I can here.

 2009/12/16 13:27Profile
Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
It is similar to a Father in his household who passively wills for his children to be obedient and on occasion decrees that they will do so, or decrees a scenario that he decides will happen, according to his ability and will to make it happen.


I think you explained it very well here.

 2009/12/16 13:32Profile
Silo
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Joined: 2009/11/11
Posts: 73


 Re:

Always make a distinction between God’s perfect will and His permissive will, which He uses to accomplish His divine purpose for our lives. God’s perfect will is unchangeable. It is with His permissive will, or the various things that He allows into our lives, that we must wrestle before Him. It is our reaction to these things allowed by His permissive will that enables us to come to the point of seeing His perfect will for us. "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God . . ." ( Romans 8:28 )— to those who remain true to God’s perfect will— His calling in Christ Jesus. God’s permissive will is the testing He uses to reveal His true sons and daughters. We should not be spineless and automatically say, "Yes, it is the Lord’s will."
-Oswald Chambers

 2009/12/16 13:47Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Gotcha. I guess I'm used to hearing the words "decreetive" and "revealed" will of God. The decreetive will being what God has determined to happen throughout history, and the "revealed" will being his commandments, similar to the John Piper explanation.

This is actually an important distinction to make. The Scripture tells us to search out and obey the revealed will of God, but actually commands us to leave the decreetive will up to Him (Deut 29:29). This is important when determining "God's will for my life."

There is a extensive book on this topic titled "Decision Making and the Will of God".

With care in Christ...


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/12/16 14:01Profile









 Re:

The "Permissive Will" comes from this verse.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and [b]acceptable[/b], and perfect, will of God.

I heard this teaching from the false prophet Kenneth E. Hagin some years ago.

He was successful in changing the word "Acceptable" to mean "Permissible" in that many have accepted what he said including me.

I don't subscribe to that way of thinking anymore.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a "Permissive Will". If anything, the closest would be to say that "My grace is sufficient for thee".

 2009/12/16 16:02
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "Permissive Will". If anything, the closest would be to say that "My grace is sufficient for thee".



I agree.

Seems to me that when we look at the WORD and work to categorize what would fall under God's permissive will, and what is his perfect/absolute will one will be be working to justify some disobedient act. Sounds to me like a dangerous mindset.

My thoughts..

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/12/16 20:25Profile









 Re:

I posted this on another thread a while back, but I'll post it again. A very interesting article on the subject can be found here: http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/are-there-two-wills-in-god/

He gives numerous Scriptural examples to support his claims.

 2009/12/16 22:55
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

After reading this question and pondering it a bit more I thought that perhaps I should come back and share more..

One can really get all tangled up when one works to discern whether this or that act is God's will or his permissive will.

Sin is sin. God allows it and its consequences to occur. This is a no-brainer to those of us who study the Scriptures. But was this act God's will? Is sin God's will? No. It must always be repented of.

However, suppose you get pregnant and are single, is this child's existence God's will? To determine this will lead you into a mine field fraught with danger and its consequence of extreme anger - by someone. I have had single, pregnant clients justify their sin because they got pregnant: this pregnancy is God's will! if it would not be they would not be pregnant!

How do you handle this?

What if you are the illegitimate child? what would you think? are you any less important to God?

Seems to me it is in our best interests - and others' - to simply leave some things be. We can't change it, we cannot change history. We are here and it is up to us to repent of [i]our[/i] sin and let God take care of other peoples'.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/12/17 9:10Profile





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