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Jdl
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Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Help on Romans 7:7

Hey guys, hope everyone is good today...I've been listening to Romans and this verse kinda confused me...I know that earlier Paul says God has written the law on people's hearts, so that even non-jewish nations and tribes and peoples intrinsically know the difference between right and wrong...but then in this particular verse, Paul says he wouldn't have known sin if it wasn't for the actual law...can anybody shed light? Thanks


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James

 2009/12/16 10:23Profile
Axe1338
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Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re: Help on Romans 7:7

The context of Romans 7 is different than that of Romans 1 which is what you are making reference to; but Paul does stay true to his words in Romans 7 by quoting Romans 3:20, which says "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Because both text (Romans 1 & 7) are so vast I would recommend reading a commentary for each. Hope this helps. God bless.

 2009/12/16 10:58Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Help on Romans 7:7

The law was never intended to give steps 1 through 600 for pleasing God. Anyone of an orthodox Jewish mindset believed it was. The Pharisees prided themselves on their ability to keep the law. The fact was, that was not the intent of the law.

Look at Galatians chap. 3 and Romans chap. 3.

So, Paul comes to this part of His letter and makes a point to those who know the law (See vs. 1)

The woman is bound by law to her husband, but if He dies, she is loosed from his law, and free to marry another. Through Jesus Christ, there has been a death. We, through Christ, are dead to the law. The law was a picture of the holy standard of God. It revealed sin in us. Anyone who tried to keep the law found they could not, and the law reminded us through its endless sacrifices that we were not free from our sins. Rememberance was made of those sins every year.

Now, since the law brought to me knowledge of sin, and made my sin exceeding sinful by showing me how far short of God's holy standard I was coming, does that mean that the law was sin? Absolutely not. It was a picture of God's holy standard.

Verse 13 really ties it down. (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law exposed my sinful state.

Paul then goes on to describe the utter impossibility and sheer frustration experienced by trying to be good by keeping the law, when the law only made sin come alive to him. This is the futility of trying to please God by keeping the law. When he knew to do good, he found himself always falling short of it.

He concludes by saying, who is going to get me off this impossible treadmill? Who is going to deliver me from this rat race of self effort in trying to keep the law and finding myself always sold under sin? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus (see Rom 7:4) is the one who delivers us from the body of this death.

I would also suggest reading Hebrews chapter 10 on this same issue. (The strong doctrinal parallels between Romans and Hebrews are one reason I personally believe the author of Hebrews to be Paul.) Under the law, man was prevented from going "behind the veil" in to the presence of God due to his sinful state. But because Christ is now that veil, that doorway to the very presence of God, we can now go through Him into the very holy of holies, perpetually, not just once per year after intricate and exhaustive cleansing ceremony.

Anyway, hope that helps

Travis


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Travis

 2009/12/16 17:13Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Hi JDL,

In Romans 7:7-12 Paul is explaining that the law is not sin but holy and good because in Romans 7:6 he said that we have been delivered from the law and now serve in the newness of the Spirit. So in other words just because I have said this don't think that!

You see the law is good and holy because it reflects the righteous character of God. That is why it shows us what sin is. However it has no power to free us from sin. Only the Spirit of life in Christ can free us from sin. Romans 8:3-4. Galatians 3:21-22.

The law is righteous, but it cannot MAKE anyone righteous only the imputed righteousness of Christ imparted by His Spirit can do that.

We now fulfill the law by walking by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:14-18.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.....

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

You are not under law and there is no law (to keep) if you walk by and are led by the Spirit of God, because you fulfill the law (that which is God's character). If it's God's Spirit that is working in you then He will always fulfill and keep the law perfectly.


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Dave

 2009/12/16 18:25Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Help on Romans 7:7

Hi everyone.

I think that the difference here is in clarity:

that what may be dimly perceived through the knowledge of good and evil and the conscience is much more clear in the Law and commandments(Deuteronomy 4:5-8, Proverbs 6:23). And that this is something of what Paul is relating in Romans 7.




Something similar I think in Psalm 19, verses 1-6 and verses 7-14.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/12/16 21:04Profile
Jdl
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Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Re:

Hey guys, thanks very much for the in depth responses...I guess my confusion was more along the lines of why Paul said he needed the law to show him what sin was if God's morality is placed in our hearts anyways


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James

 2009/12/16 23:03Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

JDL,

Sorry if I misunderstood your question on this verse earlier. As I see it in Romans 7 Paul is speaking as to his and others in their unregenerate state when he says the law shows us what sin is. But now those who are regenerated by the Spirit now have the law written on our hearts.

I know that in Romans 2 Paul says the gentiles without the law who keep it anyway show it is written in their hearts. However I don't think he is making an absolute statement that they have the fullness of the law by the Spirit, but it is possible for some people to instinctively keep some points of God's law because of their concience.

Not sure if this makes sense!


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Dave

 2009/12/17 17:34Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Think of it this way. We can become pretty good at convincing ourselves that we are doing a pretty good job of living up to God's standards on our own. Having knowledge of right an wrong does not keep us from convincing ourselves that we are doing a pretty good job of living right. Enter the law. It made sin "exceeding sinful". It concluded all under sin. If you fail in just one part, you become guilty of all. That is the point. It shows us that we need a savior because our own efforts are woefully inadequate, not to mention self deceptive.

Does that help?


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Travis

 2009/12/17 17:36Profile
MattChenier
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Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

JDL, The bible says, where there is no law, sin is not imputed. I don't think Paul meant he didn't know he was doing wrong. Think about Cain, he knew he was doing wrong when he killed his brother, but there was no law about murder. Another thought I have is that there are many things written in the Jewish Law that would not be in any way unrighteous if God had not told them not to do it. Eating a pig would not be wrong if god hadn't told them not to. There are some things that God didn't hold against them such as eating pigs if they hadn't been told not to. I don't think this commandment is written on our hearts from birth. However, I believe commandments against murder and homosexuality are written on our hearts.

I don't expect his gives you a full picture, but perhaps it helps a little. They are just my thoughts.


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Matt Chenier

 2009/12/18 4:01Profile
Jdl
Member



Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Re:

Actually, the replies have helped guys, thanks


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James

 2009/12/20 19:00Profile





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