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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Rom 6:1

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imnowhere
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Joined: 2009/8/1
Posts: 69


 Rom 6:1

Romans 6:1

What kind of gospel do you have to teach to have this kind of response?

Would Finney have received the same response as Paul? Spurgeon?

(We all know it's the wrong assumption and not what Paul taught, but an interesting response to Paul's gospel. Would you get the same objection as Paul did?)

 2009/12/9 16:27Profile









 Re: Rom 6:1

This was a false accusation, not a logical accusation. Paul's undersanding of grace was not a license to sin, but actually that we should not sin because we are under grace.

Paul knew that people might misundersatnd what he meant by saying that we are not under the law. He knew people might think that he was talking about our obligation to the moral law, which is why he corrected this by saying that sin shall not have dominion over you.

 2009/12/9 16:36









 Re:

The modern lawless Gospel contradicts these passages:

* Everyone who is sinning is under God’s wrath (Rom. 1:18; 2:8-9; Eph. 5:6; Co. 3:6).

* God will not allow anyone who is still sinning into Heaven (Matt. 13:41-42; Rev. 21:27; 22:15).

* The sin must stop before we die (Rev. 22:11).

* Only those who are obedient to God’s commandments will be allowed into Heaven (Matt. 7:21; 1 Cor. 6:9; Rev. 22:14).

* Men must give up their sins, or forsake their sins (repent) in order to be forgiven (Eze. 33:11; Isa. 55:7; Prov. 28:13; 2 Pet. 3:9).

The modern lawless Gospel turns God's grace into a license to sin (Jude 1:4). True grace teaches us to live holy (Titus 2:11)

The truth is according to godliness (Titus 1:1). The doctrine which is of God is according to godliness (1 Tim. 6:3). False doctrine tends to a life of sinning.

 2009/12/9 16:39
imnowhere
Member



Joined: 2009/8/1
Posts: 69


 Re:

Do the Ezekiel and Isaiah verses you quoted pertain to backsliding Israel or unbelievers hearing the gospel for the first time?

Also, explain 'lawless gospel' and how the saving gospel contains the law?

 2009/12/9 16:45Profile
imnowhere
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Joined: 2009/8/1
Posts: 69


 Re:

I found a number of commentators found even this question repulsive, but others believe Paul himself put it forward to answer the foremost and pre eminent question that would arise from a gospel of grace instead of law (old covenant), as this is the first question Paul fields concerning his doctrine of the gospel (aside from a passive one in Romans 4. Also noteworthy is that this question is penned exactly the same as the one in Romans 9 that is a legitamite question that Paul answers)


Douglas Moo's commentary on Romans is noteworthy (found online re Romans 6. I think he works with D A Carson)

 2009/12/9 16:48Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Rom 6:1

If you look carefully at what proceeded this statement in the letter to the Romans, you find Paul teaching very strongly on the grace of God. He makes the point over and over again that works cannot earn us relationship with or right standing in God's eyes. In fact, he teaches the message of the grace of God so strongly that he has to balance it lest he be misunderstood. Ignore chapter divisions. They were placed so that we can easily find our way around. They were placed where someone thought it logical to place them. Read chapter five and into chapter 6 without paying attention to them. Paul says, its all by grace, not by works. It is a free gift, not earned....What shall we say then (referring to everything he has just taught), shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Since it is the grace of God and not our adherence to law, can we just keep sinning and trust in grace? God forbid! It is by grace, but when we are born again we die to sin and are made alive unto Christ. We have been transformed. No longer is there in us the desire to continue in sin. How can a dead man continue living his old life?

So it is a gospel of the "almost too good to be true" news of God's grace shed abroad to us that would elicit a response that invokes this kind of statement.

If we really teach the grace of God for salvation the way Paul did, instead of the dead religious adherence to laws, rites, and form, we would need to respond to the same question that Paul responded to.


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Travis

 2009/12/9 16:51Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
If we really teach the grace of God for salvation the way Paul did, instead of the dead religious adherence to laws, rites, and form, we would need to respond to the same question that Paul responded to.



You nailed it brother. :-)


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TJ

 2009/12/9 16:56Profile
imnowhere
Member



Joined: 2009/8/1
Posts: 69


 Re:

.

Quote:
If we really teach the grace of God for salvation the way Paul did, instead of the dead religious adherence to laws, rites, and form, we would need to respond to the same question that Paul responded to.



I think that's an excellent reply. No one questions that the allusion made by the question is dead wrong, but the fact that Paul's gospel illicits such a question speaks volumes about how Paul went about it and the doctrine he taught.

The statement 'lawless gospel' would have been a great compliment to Paul.


Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;



 2009/12/9 16:58Profile









 Re:

By "lawless Gospel" I meant the false Gospel that says you don't need to forsake your sins to be saved.

It is true that no amount of obedience can ever earn salvation. The idea that we can be justified by works of the law is a false Gospel. But likewise, the idea that we don't need to give up our sins (repent) in order to be forgiven is also a false Gospel. We are not saved by our obedience, but we must change our mind about living a disobedient life in order to be saved.

The Gospel that the prophets preached, John the Baptist preached, Jesus Christ preached, the Apostles preached, all included repentance. A lawless Gospel says that you can be saved while continuing in your sins. God promises wrath for those who continue in their sins. God promises mercy to those who give up their sins.

Justification by grace through faith means that we are undeservingly forgiven by an obedient working faith. We are not justified by dead faith, but by true faith. True faith purifies the heart, sanctifies us, works by love, overcomes the world, and obeys God.

 2009/12/9 17:17
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
By "lawless Gospel" I meant the false Gospel that says you don't need to forsake your sins to be saved. It is true that no amount of obedience can ever earn salvation. The idea that we can be justified by works of the law is a false Gospel. But likewise, the idea that we don't need to give up our sins (repent) in order to be forgiven is also a false Gospel. We are not saved by our obedience, but we must change our mind about living a disobedient life in order to be saved. The Gospel that the prophets preached, John the Baptist preached, Jesus Christ preached, the Apostles preached, all included repentance. A lawless Gospel says that you can be saved while continuing in your sins. God promises wrath for those who continue in their sins. God promises mercy to those who give up their sins. Justification by grace through faith means that we are undeservingly forgiven by an obedient working faith. We are not justified by dead faith, but by true faith. True faith purifies the heart, sanctifies us, works by love, overcomes the world, and obeys God.



Brother, I don't think anyone would argue that repentance is not necessary for salvation. Scripture makes that very clear.

The term "lawless gospel" means that we are saved outside of the law. i.e., it is not in keeping the law that we become right with God, it is in receiving the sacrifice of Christ for atonement for our sins.

We are not saved by faith. We are saved by grace, through faith. It is God's grace by which we obtain salvation. Faith is the vehicle through which we receive His grace. It is our positive response to trust in and receive what God has already provided. For by grace are we saved through faith...




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Travis

 2009/12/9 17:39Profile





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