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Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

barnesic wrote:
For me it is sin and sin is in us all. I don't believe any of us are able under our own power to be free of it.

We are talking about an unpardonable sin; that is the sin which will not be forgiven. A reasonable case can be made that simple unbelief is the unpardonable sin. Many of the great commentaries side with you on this one. But, for me the literal view should always take precedence where it can.

God bless you and keep you,


The unpardonable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, cannot be unbelief. Unbelief is forgivable and can be overcome through repentance and faith.

[i]Ro 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1Ti 1:13-14 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.[/i]

 2009/12/9 0:33Profile









 Re: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
The unpardonable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, cannot be unbelief. Unbelief is forgivable and can be overcome through repentance and faith.

Hi Leo,

I think barnesic may have a point, and you do too. In part, my thread on Romans 10:17 is about this. Some amazing testimonies have been posted there.

One of the things I wanted to bring out from that verse, is that the word of God itself, is what opens both physical and spiritual ears to 'hear' God speaking to the inner man.

Now, in Mark 3, Pharisees we in the presence of God Incarnate. They could see His mighty acts of healing and deliverance, and they could actually hear His physical voice.

In the face of all this evidence that this Man was sent from God, they [i][b]chose not to believe in Him[/i][/b]. That is like second degree unbelief - even worse than the initial state of ignorant unbelief at which Paul later testified that God winks. (Acts 17, 1 Tim 1:13)

Thus, when the Pharisees called Jesus unclean, it was a deliberate and additional insult to the most pure, anointed, holy Man who has ever walked as a human being, full of the Holy Spirit.

I agree, that's not [i]merely[/i] unbelief, but [u]wilful[/u] unbelief was the platform for it.

The Holy Spirit [i]had come[/i] in full measure, and close enough to touch the lives of all who came in contact with the presence of Jesus Christ.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:

 2009/12/9 3:54
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

There are many different interpretations of what the unpardonable sin is, i am not absolutley sure but what i can gleen from scripture it seem to me that it is to have a right knowledge of who Christ is, and what Christ have done and offers us in union with him. And when the spirit reveals this to a man and he rejects the spirits drawing and prompting with a full knowledge of what he is doing he commits this sin and thus there is no forgiveness for that person. but as I said i think that passage is an obscure one that is hard to define ta an absolute.

I think A.W Tozer gives good wisdom concerning passages as this in the following, it has helped me.

[i]A Rule for Obscure Texts

by A.W. Tozer

THAT THERE ARE A FEW DIFFICULT PASSAGES in the Bible is well known to everyone. The enemies of the truth are adept at dragging out those obscure verses and holding them as proof that the Bible is a book of mistakes and contradictions. Teachers of false doctrine use them to teach ideas that have no scriptural support. It is well for the true Christian to know what to do with difficult passages.

When reading the Scriptures for our spiritual profit, we would be well advised to pass over the difficult verse without more ado. For instance, the book of First Peter contains 103 verses of blessed, encouraging truth designed to strengthen and instruct the reader. It also contains two verse that are, as Peter said of some of Paul's writing, "hard to understand." Those seeking after God will major on the 103 verses that they can understand and wait for clearer light on the short passages that they find difficult. To do anything else is to create a strong suspicion that we are playing with the Word of God and are glad to discover something to take the heat off our consciences.

The passages in First Peter to which we refer are these: "Through whom he also went and preached to the spirits in prison" (3:19), and "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit" (4:6). That these words are difficult to interpret will not be denied by any humble-minded Bible expositor. Personally I believe I have a satisfactory explanation, but granted that I do not and that I am forced to admit I do not know what they mean, what then?

To answer that, I would give my readers a rule of interpretation that is worthy of universal application when studying the Word of God. It is this: "If I do not know what a difficult passage means, I can at least know what it does not mean."

It is right here that the false teacher seizes the advantage over the Christian. Let the Christian admit he or she does not know the meaning of a verse and the false teacher eagerly grasps at this admission and pushes it for all it is worth. "You do not know what the verse means? Well, here is what Mrs. Eddy, or Judge Rutherford, or Mrs. Blavatsky, or Joseph Smith says it means. Now you have the meaning. The light has come to you at last." The assurance with which he speaks intimidates the meek soul who has just admitted ignorance of the meaning of the text, and he forthwith surrenders to the guidance of the blind leader.

Let us take a homemade illustration. I am trying to identify a piece of fruit I have just pulled from a tree. It is purple in color, egg-shaped, contains one large pit at its center, has a series of sharp spikes growing all over its surface, has the fragrance of a rose and the taste of watermelon. I shake my head and admit I do not know what it is. Immediately an eager-faced helper appears and says, "If you do not know what it is, I can help you. It is a banana. Now that I have given you the light, come and follow me. I know a lot more things just as wonderful as this."

But I am not so easily fooled. My answer is, "No, my friend, I will not follow you. True, I do not know what this fruit is, but I surely know what it is not. It is not a banana. That will dispose of my little helper most effectively, especially if I can produce a real banana for comparison.

Now what does all this add up to? Simply this--the fact that I may not be able to explain a passage does not obligate me to accept from another an explanation that is obviously phony. I do not know what it means, but I do know what it does not mean. I may not know, for instance, what those strange verses mean that tell us about Christ's going in His spirit to preach to the spirits in prison. But I know what they do not mean. They do not mean universal salvation, nor a second chance to be saved after death, nor the emptying and abolishing of hell. The reason I know what they do not mean is that these doctrines are simply not taught in the whole sweep of revealed truth. And more significantly, the exact opposite is fully and freely taught throughout the entire Bible.

I have used one passage of Scripture, not to emphasize it in particular, but as a fair example chosen from a dozen or so difficult passages found in the Bible. The same rule applies to each and all of them. The moral is: Let the whole Bible speak and you will find that it speaks with one clear voice. Listen to that voice and the obscure verses will not trouble you.

"He who has ears, let him hear." The wise will understand, but we may expect a certain type of religionist to continue to major on obscurities. He has a built-in talent for going askew on doctrine, and nothing I can say will cure him.[/i]


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/12/9 4:15Profile
Axe1338
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Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re:

Quote:
The unpardonable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, cannot be unbelief. Unbelief is forgivable and can be overcome through repentance and faith.



Alive-To-God biblically gave the clear answer to what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was and it is evident in the text that it cannot be done again. The text also tells us it was unpardonable, so because blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (the way the text describes it) cannot be done again (since none of us can say Jesus was demonized)its equivalent today is the unpardonable sin; which is continued unbelief and death in unbelief. I agree that God can change a person from unbelief to belief, but if that person dies in unbelief there is no forgiveness for that person. Jesus said it clearly that the Holy Spirit when He comes will convict the world of sin, sin because they believe [b]not[/b] on me.

 2009/12/9 9:50Profile
barnesic
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Joined: 2009/4/13
Posts: 7
Orchard, Texas

 Yes...I believe you are right.

Thank you. I agree with you. I was pointing out that some folks make a reasonable argument that unbelief will not be forgiven. I think they take it to the ultimate conclusion, though. That would be when the Book of Life is closed and the last name has been entered. At that point, one could reasonably say unbelief is unpardonable.

My view is in the literal interpretation; the Scribes were claiming the Holy Spirit was demonic.


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Jim Barnes

 2009/12/9 20:09Profile









 Re: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit



barnesic said

Quote:
My view is in the literal interpretation; the Scribes were claiming the Holy Spirit was demonic

Yes, and this further justifies Jesus' pronouncement against unbelieving Jews in John 8:44 Ye are of [i]your[/i] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [i]you[/i] the truth, ye believe me not.

Verse 45 seems to show the contrariness of these Jews that [i][b]because[/i][/b] He told them the truth, they would not believe Him. Amazing! And completely in line with the serpent beginning his defence with a lie against God's word.

 2009/12/10 13:50
Jdl
Member



Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Re:

Everyone, I hope you don't mind but I wanted to ask about something and this thread is the very place to do it...I think I have actually committed blasphemy against the holy spirit...Even amongst my struggles and doubts, this has been weighing on me since Sunday, when it happened

I was in the car with my best friend and I was sharing with them some of the different things I have been discovering from my research through apologetics...I told them the same story that I shared with you guys on the miracles thread, about the rabbi who was spoken and prophecied to in tongues in his hebrew language...I remember hearing from someone that sometimes Satan can cause prophecies and deceptions and that we have to test everything...so when my friend and I were discussing this particular thing, I said "it's pretty amazing, the only other thing I think that can explain it, besides the holy spirit, is that some guy learned the hebrew language that night to deceieve the rabbi, or it was the devil." And immediately I realized what I said and I was shocked and terrified! I don't know now what to do about it because it seems pretty clear to me that I may have attributed something wonderfully done by the spirit to something else...even with my doubts about other things, I am still afraid that I have done the very thing that the Bible says is unforgivable...can anyone perhaps shed light?


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James

 2009/12/17 9:59Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

Jdl wrote:
Everyone, I hope you don't mind but I wanted to ask about something and this thread is the very place to do it...I think I have actually committed blasphemy against the holy spirit...Even amongst my struggles and doubts, this has been weighing on me since Sunday, when it happened

I was in the car with my best friend and I was sharing with them some of the different things I have been discovering from my research through apologetics...I told them the same story that I shared with you guys on the miracles thread, about the rabbi who was spoken and prophecied to in tongues in his hebrew language...I remember hearing from someone that sometimes Satan can cause prophecies and deceptions and that we have to test everything...so when my friend and I were discussing this particular thing, I said "it's pretty amazing, the only other thing I think that can explain it, besides the holy spirit, is that some guy learned the hebrew language that night to deceieve the rabbi, or it was the devil." And immediately I realized what I said and I was shocked and terrified! I don't know now what to do about it because it seems pretty clear to me that I may have attributed something wonderfully done by the spirit to something else...even with my doubts about other things, I am still afraid that I have done the very thing that the Bible says is unforgivable...can anyone perhaps shed light?


Jdl,

You did not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. All you did was speculate on the possible causes of this "miracle", and it is indeed possible that the whole thing was a fake and contrived with malicious intent. In considering these things you have not sinned against God.

In fact, your fear of possibly offending God is a very good sign that your heart is in the right place. God is totally loving and patient with us. As long as your heart is seeking him, your actions will follow the right course. If you make a mistake, even commit a sin (as King David did), you will not lose your salvation as long as your heart remains true to God. That is what you should guard -- your heart.

The unpardonable sin is when, having known God and having walked with him, you consciously and willfully turn your heart away from him and decide to deny him. It is not a sin of action, but a sin of the heart, and only God is able to discern whether such a sin has been committed or not.

We should focus more on how to please God, and not on how we might displease him. It is hard to displease God when you seek him with all your heart, even if you make an occasional mistake.

In Christ,
Leo

 2009/12/17 12:02Profile





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