SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Anger / Hatred of God

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Something transpired in the new document that was drawn up that made the New Testament the New Testament.

God REALLY does love this world, and He loves people.

I think we have Christians that have some chip on their shoulder who want to help God hate people when they sin, when Christ took away the sin of the world. The disciples tempted Jesus by asking Him if they should pray down fire to consume the people and Jesus rebuked them saying, "You don't know of what spirit you are of". In other words, God is more willing to show mercy than He is throwing fireballs at people.

If God is angry at anyone it's those that have rejected the gospel, knowing full well that it could save their souls.

But as for His body, He loves it. He loves His body. Whether we stand or fall, we are the LORD'S. If we fall into sin a thousand times a day, we are still the LORD'S.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

God is preparing us so that He will move in us to move on sinners IN WHOM HE LOVES AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR.

God is not as hateful as some men have labeled Him out to be.

 2009/12/1 18:55
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re: Anger / Hatred of God

I did not read all the posts, so someone else may have shared this idea....

You asked:

Quote:
'Why does God exhibit the emotion (?) of anger / fury?'



If you have loved ones who are spurning the mercy and grace of God, who are walking away from God and have chosen the path that leads to hell, you can more easily understand God's anger. If you can in your imagination and emotion visualize hell for a brief moment and know these people have [i][b]chosen[/b][/i] this place to spend eternity, it has the power to evoke anger like nothing else. It is not that they do not know but that they have chosen to disbelieve.

If you have experienced this, I think you will understand that God is very much justified to be angry, especially since he has provided the means to escape this hazzard by suffering and dying on a cross and a person spurns it!

My thoughts,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/12/1 21:23Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

All comes from unbelief. AS Adam in unbelief of God and belief of the deceiver. As Isreal in the wilderness. They could not enter God's rest because of unbelief, from which all sin sprouts from. God's wrath is most certainly on the unbelief, not the unbeliever for whom Christ died for.

Even now, unbelief is the full depth of God's anger and wrath.

There is a difference in The Nation of Israel and the individual that is called. This is where a lot of misinformation comes from. God has set aside the Gospel to Israel as a nation, but not His chosen and called in Christ.

Hebrews 3:7-19 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Again; "So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

How do we believe? By the foolishness of preaching of God's Word. "How shall they hear without a preacher." The Gospel is now given to the Gentiles, and they are the same, they will not enter God's rest because of unbelief. "They will hear it, that is the "Gospel", but unbelief is still the only thing that keeps the whole world from salvation. The Faith of Christ, The Grace of God, The Teaching and Conviction of the Holy Spirit, to those that are called according to His purpose.

Acts 28:25-31 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

How do we have rest? Not anguish, but peace and rest in Christ.

Acts 9:29-31 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus. Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God and you will be saved.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Do we want rest or anguish?

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Rest, sweet rest in God's rest through Jesus Christ.

Do we want rest?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Anything outside of Rest in Christ is our own works trying to take our anguish and overcome so we can be right before God, This is Sin.

The works in God's rest are such that will follow us into the presence of God as Christ presents His Body the Church to the Father.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

In Christ's rest: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/12/1 21:33Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Anger / Hatred of God

This short article may help.

It seems a contradiction that a God who is love can also hate. We are created with the capacity to both love and hate; it is part of our being created in the image of God. The fact that we are all tainted with sin does not negate the fact that the ability to love and hate is part of the image of God that was created within us all. Therefore, if it is no contradiction for a human being to be able to love and hate, then much more so would it not be a contradiction for God to be able to love and hate.

When the Bible does speak of God hating, the object of God’s hatred is usually sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31, 16:22) and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6, 11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19 outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well.

The question that begs to be answered at this point is why does God hate these things? God hates them because they are contrary to His nature—God’s nature being holy, pure and righteous. In fact, David writes, “For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psalm 5:4 emphasis added). God is holy and hates sin. If He did not hate sin, He would not be holy. God is love, but He is also wrath, justice, and vengeance. But His wrath is a holy wrath and His justice and vengeance are holy as well. God’s love is holy. Therefore, He cannot "love everyone all the time no matter what they do," as some like to claim. Nothing could be further from the truth. God loves righteousness and holiness and hates sin and evil. If He did not, He would not be God.

So if God hates sin and loves holiness, how does He love us? Simple. He loves us because we have the righteousness of Christ who became sin for us on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). He poured out His wrath and vengeance against sin on His Son, so that He could pour out His mercy and love on us. But without that sacrifice credited to us, His wrath and hatred remains on us because He hates our sin. The Bible never says He ‘hates the sin, but loves the sinner.’ In fact He is “angry with the wicked every day” (Psalm 7:11). Is there a sense in which God loves everyone? Yes. Does that love preclude God from also hating sin, wickedness, and evil? No. [url=http://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-hate.html]Source[/url]


_________________
TJ

 2009/12/1 21:35Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Man's Unbelief > God's Sovereign Grace ?

Man does not desire God
Man cannot seek God
Men are born God-hating
Men are sinful, wicked creatures

Please take this as a true premise before responding. :-(

This is why the original post asked how 'reformed theologians' resolved the tension...

My question runs much deeper than what you guys are getting at...

Man cannot turn to God unless God, in a way, forces them to be regenerate through His Holy Spirit... In the same way, none of us here on this planet chose to be born into this world, in a way we were forced into this world by our parents. Thus Christ talks of being born again, with His conversation with Nicodemus. No one chooses and says, I think I would like to be born in the time period of 1500 AD, in France. Or, I would like to born in the time period of the Medo-Persian empire...

I know I did not seek God because of some intellect that I possess, neither was I nicer than any of my peers, God simply chose to put a hunger within me to search after Him...

If men are truly depraved and wicked, and require God to move on their behalf to save them, why does God still exhibit anger against them?

Are we not saved through grace? Grace through faith? A revelation of His mercy towards us? Anything else would allow men to boast in the flesh, and say, I TURNED TO GOD, I CHOSE GOD, I CHOSE TO REPENT>>> which will eventually, if followed logically >>>I DESERVE HEAVEN BECAUSE OF SOMETHING I DID / THOUGHT / SAID.

Opposed to, God chose me, God granted me grace although I did not deserve it, I am no better than my fellow man, there was nothing in me worth saving, God simply chose to pour out His unmerited favor upon me... I deserve hell, if God were to send me to hell, I would still glorify God for who He is... and I am a worm.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/12/1 23:37Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

IWantAnguish wrote:
Man's Unbelief > God's Sovereign Grace ?

Man does not desire God
Man cannot seek God
Men are born God-hating
Men are sinful, wicked creatures

Please take this as a true premise before responding. :-(

This is why the original post asked how 'reformed theologians' resolved the tension...

My question runs much deeper than what you guys are getting at...

Man cannot turn to God unless God, in a way, forces them to be regenerate through His Holy Spirit... In the same way, none of us here on this planet chose to be born into this world, in a way we were forced into this world by our parents. Thus Christ talks of being born again, with His conversation with Nicodemus. No one chooses and says, I think I would like to be born in the time period of 1500 AD, in France. Or, I would like to born in the time period of the Medo-Persian empire...

I know I did not seek God because of some intellect that I possess, neither was I nicer than any of my peers, God simply chose to put a hunger within me to search after Him...

If men are truly depraved and wicked, and require God to move on their behalf to save them, why does God still exhibit anger against them?

Are we not saved through grace? Grace through faith? A revelation of His mercy towards us? Anything else would allow men to boast in the flesh, and say, I TURNED TO GOD, I CHOSE GOD, I CHOSE TO REPENT>>> which will eventually, if followed logically >>>I DESERVE HEAVEN BECAUSE OF SOMETHING I DID / THOUGHT / SAID.

Opposed to, God chose me, God granted me grace although I did not deserve it, I am no better than my fellow man, there was nothing in me worth saving, God simply chose to pour out His unmerited favor upon me... I deserve hell, if God were to send me to hell, I would still glorify God for who He is... and I am a worm.


Boy, you are something else!

1. Your reasoning above leaves a lot to be desired.

2. Your castigation of those who answered your thread with the sincere desire to help clarify the issue is out of place. You should be grateful for their responses.

3. Your practice of posing theoretical questions when you already have a preset notion of what the answer should be, and then berating those who respond differently is distasteful.

4. If you have an idea that you want to express, have the courage to spell it out rather than using this bait-and-switch method to see what others think first so you can come out on top in the end.

I sincerely hope these constructive criticisms will help you towards a more productive and edifying experience in this forum.

 2009/12/2 0:09Profile









 Re: Anger / Hatred of God

Brother Anguish,

Quote:
Man cannot seek God

This is a theological proposition not found in scripture - unlike the concept of Tri-unity, which [i]is[/i]

A concept of God's mercy can follow only on the heels of a revelation of man's sin in general, but a concept of one's own sin in particular may take longer to dawn, and God graciously waits.

I don't have time to write a lot, but I don't agree, either, with the definining moment of 'regeneration', being a sovereign act of God despite a man's desire to the contrary. That is not found in scripture either. He gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. (Acts 2) To obey Him is to have heard Him speak, acknowledge not just that He spoke but also what He said, and to make changes of one's own volition, to bring one's attitude into line with His most recent revelation.

These are acts of 'faith' on the part of the man, which follow entirely from God having spoken to Him, yes, but, the man may have been seeking God before he heard God speak. God's word spoken into the heart/spirit of a man is what [u]of itself[/u] [b]creates faith[/b] to respond to that word. Even so, regeneration may not yet have begun.

The analogy of the unborn child is appropriate here, as the ear of the unborn child is first to be formed and functioning fully, from the 5th week of pregnancy. But he is nowhere near 'born' yet. And before you argue that that's a picture from fallen nature, remember, God made us in His image, and everything natural is patterned on pre-existing spiritual reality.

Gtg. Look fwd to your response.

 2009/12/2 0:40
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Quote:
Boy, you are something else! 1. Your reasoning above leaves a lot to be desired. 2. Your castigation of those who answered your thread with the sincere desire to help clarify the issue is out of place. You should be grateful for their responses. 3. Your practice of posing theoretical questions when you already have a preset notion of what the answer should be, and then berating those who respond differently is distasteful. 4. If you have an idea that you want to express, have the courage to spell it out rather than using this bait-and-switch method to see what others think first so you can come out on top in the end. I sincerely hope these constructive criticisms will help you towards a more productive and edifying experience in this forum.



I was in no way castigating those who replied... But I did state in the original post that I was seeking how 'reformed theologians' would resolve the issue.

I understand there are many on these forums that do not hold to reformed views on several doctrines, but I do hold to the idea that the law of non-contradiction exists in this universe. This means, that A cannot equal Non-A at the same time... The reason I hold to reformed theology is because I can see that it exalts the glory of God above the opinions of men.

Also, it is presumptuous on your behalf to believe that I am not grateful for the responses that I have already received.

I do not post in this forum looking for arguments... rather I am seeking truth. And I thought I could rely on others who participate on this site to help me out here, because it really is quite frustrating.

And as for your last point, I am insulted that you would presume that I have some sort of hidden agenda in order to make myself look smarter than those who chose to reply to my post...

Anyway... Thanks to all of you guys for attempting to help me out of the mess I'm in.

I'll be retiring from this forum for now.

May God bless you all, for Christ was cursed on our behalf.

/end thread


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/12/2 2:14Profile
Jdl
Member



Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Re:

Hi everyone...i don't mean to interrupt, but I thought this would be a good time to pop in and ask something that has plagued me for years...a simple question: does God love me or not? I know some people have said "well, do you believe in Christ? If you do, then yes, he loves you...but if you don't, then he hates you"...and I have also gotten "yes, he loves you, he showed you by giving his son...now please believe on him"

So I just don't know, I really don't know...and it agonizes me further because the Bible seems to give both answers...it says he hates the wicked, but then again you have john 3:16, as well as "God showed his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for the ungodly"

So if someone was picked randomly from the street, would you be able to say "God loves that person"?


_________________
James

 2009/12/2 15:39Profile









 Re: Anger / Hatred of God


Brother Anguish,

This morning I didn't have time to find and post this, so I hope you will read it when next you come to this thread. I believe it answers the misconception that 'faith' is a 'work'.


October 28th.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH


"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Romans 5:10

I am not saved by believing; I realize I am saved by believing. It is not repentance that saves me, repentance is the sign that I realize what God has done in Christ Jesus. The danger is to put the emphasis on the effect instead of on the cause. It is my obedience that puts me right with God, my consecration. Never! I am put right with God because prior to all, Christ died. When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals I can accept, instantly the stupendous Atonement of Jesus Christ rushes me into a right relationship with God; and by the supernatural miracle of God's grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, not because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. The Spirit of God brings it with a breaking, all-over light, and I know, though I do not know how, that I am saved.

The salvation of God does not stand on human logic, it stands on the sacrificial Death of Jesus. We can be born again because of the Atonement of Our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creatures, not by their repentance or their belief, but by the marvellous work of God in Christ Jesus which is prior to all experience. The impregnable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We have not to work out these things ourselves; they have been worked out by the Atonement. The supernatural becomes natural by the miracle of God; there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done - [i]"It is finished."[/i]


Oswald Chambers, My Utmost for His Highest.



It seems to me that the idea a man has [i]his own[/i] 'faith', comes from a misconception, or a forgetting, that faith is anresponse to God's word to that man, which word inherently has the power to create faith which wasn't there before.

As an analogy, let me suggest that fire is lit under a cooking pot, and the pot heats up as a natural response. The the pot 'work' at getting hot? I don't think so. But, the heat itself works a change in the fabric of the pot. (This example falls short because the pot will cool down when the heat is removed, but we, when God's word provokes faith in us, are changed irrevocably. And we didn't work at it. This kind of faith pleases God immensely.)

 2009/12/2 16:24





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy