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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Biblical position on the King James Version controversy

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 Re:



To Koheleth:

I posted:

Quote:
[b]

1. PASSOVER 2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD 3. EASTER

[/b]
________________________________________

Koheleth Responded:
Quote:

[color=990000]You are mistaken. The Greek word translated Easter by the KJV is "pascha" or Passover. Saying "after Passover" while the Days of Unleavened Bread were taking place only [u]acknowledges the fact that Jews have historically used Passover to mean the entire week.[/u] Also, no other historical document has ever used the Greek word "Passover" (pascha) to refer to Easter. They are entirely different days of observance with very different meanings, cultures, and histories.[/color][/b]




My response to Koheleth:

Some time ago, Ron Bailey (Philologos) made the same statement as yours above: [u]acknowledges the fact that Jews have historically used Passover to mean the entire week.[/u].

I challenged Ron to prove his position with Biblical Prooftext, and he could not.

I now challenge you to do the same thing that I challenged Ron Bailey to do.

However, you will not be successful. The Old Testament is clear that the feast of Passover was to be a “forever” event, a forever Feast to the Lord, a sacrifice that would occur on the 14th day of Abib. Abib was the 7th month, but this was such a specail feast (the Feast of Passover) that God commanded the Jews to make this their first month, to be celebrated forever as memorial. What were the Jews to do?. They created a “Religious Calendar", that starts with the 7th month (Abib), and they also still kept their regular calendar, that started at the day of creation.

Passover is a celebration to Memoralize their miraculous flight from the bonds and slavery of Egypt by the almighty power of God. It also pointed to a future event, when Christ, God incarnate, would come to earth and shed his blood on the cross for all the sins of the world. This special day, the 14th of Abib, Passover, was fulfilled when Christ was sacrificed for us on the cross on Thursday, on the day of the Feast of Passover, the 14th of Abib.

"Christ is our Passover"!

"Christ is also also our Firstfruits".

The feast of Firstfruits occurred on the 17th of Abib, on a Sunday in the year that the our Lord rose from the dead. Christ rose from the dead on this day, the 17th of Abib, the First day of the week, a Sunday.

The explanation for the uniqueness of the Passover sacrificial rite may be found in its commemorative aspects. The Bible repeatedly emphasized this facet of Passover, "And this day shall be for you a memorial…" (Exodus12:14); "And Moses said to the people: remember this day in which you come out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage…" (Exodus13:3); "You shall remember what Adonai your God did to Pharaoh…" (Deuteronomy7: 18); "that you may remember the day when you come out of the land of Egypt all the days of your life" (Deuteronomy16:3). These verses are a clear indication that the general function of the Passover pageantry was to serve as a constant reminder to the Israelites of their struggle against slavery and their wondrous deliverance from Egyptian bondage.

The festival of the paschal lamb was ushered in on the evening of the 14th of Nisan. On that night, the Israelites were ordered to eat the paschal lamb, and several restrictive rules were added to this feast. "And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roasted with fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it" (Exodus12:8). They were not to eat it rare or boiled in water (Exodus 12:9). They were not to leave the meat over past the conclusion of the night (Exodus 12: 10). They were not to break any of the bones of the lamb (Exodus 12:46). No alien sojourner, hired servant, or uncircumcised person may eat the meat of the paschal lamb (Exodus 12:43-45). And finally, the feast was to be held in one house, and no part of the meat was to be taken outside the house (Exodus 12:46).

A bevy of explanations has been offered for these various biblical rites attached to the paschal lamb and its sacrifice. Some scholars regarded the injunction to have the lamb roasted as a distinction from ancient pagan spring festival rites, when meat was eaten either uncooked or half-broiled. Non-Israelites and uncircumcised ones were precluded from participating in the feast of the paschal lamb because the occasion was one of reaffirming God's covenant with the Israelites.

The symbolism of the eating of the paschal lamb with the matzah and bitter herbs was a reminder to the Israelites of an enslaved past.
Interestingly, the smearing of blood on the doorposts did not become a part of the Passover pageantry. Since all paschal lambs were slaughtered in Jerusalem once the Temple was built, the Israelites would have been too far from their homes to smear blood on their doorposts


Sincerely,

Walter

 2009/12/9 21:01
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
Some time ago, Ron Bailey (Philologos) made the same statement as yours above: acknowledges the fact that Jews have historically used Passover to mean the entire week..



Quote:
I challenged Ron to prove his position with Biblical Prooftext, and he could not.



Quote:
I now challenge you to do the same thing that I challenged Ron Bailey to do.



I won't speculate why Ron Bailey felt disinclined to pick up your glove, Walter.

But "Biblical Prooftext" for this one is very easy to find.

Lk. 22.1.

... I recall you and I getting into a bit of a discussion about this passage in Acts 12 some months ago. You insist otherwise, but it's as plain as day what Luke meant when you go to the Greek.

"...Purposing after the Passover (to pascha) to bring him out to the people."

Walter, one of the characteristics of the wisdom that is from above is that it is "easy to be intreated" (Jas. 3.17). :-)


_________________
Allan Halton

 2009/12/9 23:42Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i have a friend who lives where i live named mary and she is from antioch turkey...the place where we were first called christians...she was brought up worshipping the man who died on the cross,gruz.she had no bible and none were printed in turkey til 1998.. when she got her bible she read it for months realizing the hand me down rote was full of mythe and error because of the percecution of believers by muslums... the bible printers were bombed within a year...instead of arguing over which version;partner up with someone to get the version of choice into islamic countries... i dont think mary would argue even if she received one you hate.jimp

 2009/12/10 0:22Profile









 Re: The Word of God




jimp, I have true love and compassion for your friend from Turkey. What I am talking about has nothing to do with Salvation. People can be saved without ever reading a Bible. It is happening all over the globe today, even in Saudia Arabia and Iran, and most Moslem countries. It is a real faith, because they realize that once they accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they will most assuredly loose their lives. There is a great harvest taking place that most of us are not aware of.

The purpose of my posts are biblically oriented---for the Lord tells us that we must contend for the faith.

Beloved, ... it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith ... (Jude 3)

By God’s grace, what I am concerned with here is contending for the faith. No one has to defend Jesus or the Word of God. God is perfectly capable of defending Himself and His Word.

[b] Nevertheless, He tells us to contend for the faith as there is a great issue before us today.


[size=small][font=Helvetica]The question is – where is the Word of God?

Which version is the real Bible? [u] Why do the different versions not read the same?[/u]

These are good questions and they beg to be answered.[/font][/size][/b]

Other Scripture about this issue is found in II Tim. 2:23-26:

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

"Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it." (Jeremiah 1:12)

Here God says He is watching over His Word to perform it – to make all that He has said come to pass.

Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." (Mark 13:31)
God did not promise to keep the original piece of material upon which His words were given. He says His Words SHALL NOT PASS AWAY. Therefore, this promise demands that we still have them on planet earth.

Jesus also says, "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." (Mark 8:38)
Why this verse if God has not preserved His Word?
"But the word of the Lord endureth forever." (I Pet.1:25)

This is a direct quote of Isaiah 40:8. God has said that His Word will endure forever! He did not promise that the original piece of paper, rock or vellum would exist forever but that He would preserve the Word – forever.

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth; but the word of our God shall stand for ever." (Isaiah 40:8)

".. for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psalm 138:2)

Jesus said "... and the Scripture cannot be broken." (John 10:35)

"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shall keep them, O Lord, thou shall preserve them from this generation forever." (Psa.12:6, 7)

This is God's promise to us. He says He will preserve it. He did not just promise to give the originals pure and free from error – He promised to preserve the text forever!

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)

[color=990000][size=x-small][b]Since God's Word will judge us, are we to believe that God will judge us by something which He meticulously gave us and then lost along the way? Would it be just and fair of God to judge us with these words if they are no longer trustworthy – to hold us accountable when our guide is not 100 percent reliable?

Today, in these last days, most Christians no longer have a hunger for God’s INERRANT Word. God has given me that hunger, and I am sharing it with others. Some Christians embrace it, and other Christians reject it. However, I think those that reject it would have a problme finding Scripture that supports their position.

It is up to each one to decide what they will do with HIS Word (that is "Quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword.")[/color][/b][/size]

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."
(Hebrews 4:12-13)

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

jimp wrote:
hi, i have a friend who lives where i live named mary and she is from antioch turkey...the place where we were first called christians...she was brought up worshipping the man who died on the cross,gruz.she had no bible and none were printed in turkey til 1998.. when she got her bible she read it for months realizing the hand me down rote was full of mythe and error because of the percecution of believers by muslums... the bible printers were bombed within a year...instead of arguing over which version;partner up with someone to get the version of choice into islamic countries... i dont think mary would argue even if she received one you hate.jimp



 2009/12/10 1:47
SonsofLevi
Member



Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 107
Richmond, Va. USA

 Re:

I've read through a few of these knowing the difference between the Living Word and the written word.
No matter what version you read, and I agree some have strayed greatly from the original texts, if the Holy spirit does not quicken it to Life and we read it with our natural mind then it is a dead word. The Scripture supports the Lord Jesus in that. That includes King James and all. There are versions that are even closer to the original than that and those are dead too if the Holy Spirit and our spirit do not cooperate together in our reading. In which He will show us in practical experience as we walk.
All this version this and version that is exactly what the Holy Spirit said in the Book of Hebrews was all outward form. If you don't have the Living Word...then you don't have the written word whether you're holding a King James Bible or not.
May the Lord grant unto us all a spirit of wisdom and revelation in all our studies.


_________________
R. Evan Gombach

 2009/12/16 6:01Profile





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