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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The danger of Santa Claus by John MacArthur

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 Re:

I would say this is a liberty issue. Paul said all things are lawful yet all things not profitable. etc etc.

Tell the kids about the real Santa.

Then relax and enjoy the holiday put up the pretty lights and relax. DO NOT put a stumbling block of legalism on Christmas.

To the world we are already pecuilar enough. Lets not add stuff thats really not a big deal.

Again, thats just my take on one who has "been there done that."

 2009/11/29 21:35
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

MaryJane wrote:
Greetings

This topic of celebrating has been on my heart for a long time, a very long time. To be honest I find myself wishing this time of year would not come all year long then when it does I spend all the days after Thanksgiving wishing it would hurry and be over. I have read so much on this topic that my head hurts from all the differing points of view, each using scripture to support their take on things. Its all very confusing and as I seek to know the Lords heart on this I find myself still just wishing it was already January first.

One of the things that has been on my heart is that I have read that its not Biblical to celebrate Christmas because we are not instructed to in the Bible. We are not told to celebrate birthdays at all, not our own, or the birthdays of those around us. Is it wrong then to do so? Same with other days of remembrance, Memorial day, veterans day, fourth of July, New years day, Thanksgiving, ect? Would observing or taking part in any of these days be considered not Biblical? Please know this is not being asked lightly I really do want to understand the differences...

God Bless
mj



Dear mj,

As far as I'm concerned I keep things simple regarding celebrations. First of all, I don't celebrate to obey any tradition. I do so to express joy in something -- maybe the birthday of a loved one (Jesus included); or to commemorate an important event; or to express thanks to God. Even if the Bible does not instruct me to do these things, it does not forbid me either; there is nothing sinful about it. What I avoid is Halloween, which tends to glorify or popularize evil concepts/things like witches, ghouls, etc., which is clearly against Scripture.

The Bible is no longer a do/don't list because the new covenant has set us free from the law and placed us under the Lordship of Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

[i]1Co 10:23-26 “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

1Co 10:30-31 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.[/i]

 2009/11/29 21:47Profile
JS
Member



Joined: 2009/11/23
Posts: 32
Behind a Computer Desk

 Re:

Quote:
Christ-Mass; What is it? Please give a God-honoring, Scripture honoring answer.

Note: The question was not framed in the following manner,'what is it to you'? nor was this implied in the inquiry. But I stated it plainly and accurately, What is it?


Is the "God-honoring, Scripture-honoring" answer you're looking for [i]sin?[/i] I have as much beef with what people do with the holiday as you, but is it not right, is it not lawful to worship God on the day that is meant to honor the humble, glorious coming of Christ to the earth?

Hosea 6:6 says, "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." I know a lot of people go to church on Christmas day simply because it's tradition, or simply because they want to do something for the LORD (they offer their sacrifice, as the Hosea passage said). But there are many who, with pure and merciful hearts, use the special privileges this time of year affords to teach the Gospel and to reap the harvest Christ promised in John 4:35. Ought they not to do so?

Are you so blinded by your Pharisaical hawking that you've forgotten the fields are ripe for harvest, even in the Christmas season? I ask your forgiveness now that I've been too harsh, and that I've probably spoken outside my scriptural bounds- though I mean this in a spirit of love, not contempt, and as a brother in Christ, not as a heathen ritualist.

"But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." (Mat. 12:7)

 2009/11/29 21:54Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Good post, JS.

Very level-headed and scriptural. I appreciate your sobriety in this matter and hope others will be wise enough to follow suit.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/11/29 22:14Profile









 Re:

It's clear Brother that to you Christmas is a sin. And you do take things out of context which is not like you.

2 Tim. 2:19 But the foundation of God remaineth sure, and hath this seal, The Lord knoweth who are his: and, Let every one that calleth on the Name of Christ, DEPART from iniquity.

First of all the foundation is Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone. The Seal is the holy Ghost and those that have it are His. Everyone that is associated with Jesus Christ let him depart from iniquity.

Now, Christmas to you is iniquity, to moi, it is not.

Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to OBSERVE all things, whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, until the end of the world,Amen. What observations are we to observe?

Quote:
We who are His and not our OWN, are to only OBSERVE such as He has commanded, as we simultaneously DEPART from INIQUITY which is LAW-LESS-NESS. Lawlessness is doing what is right in our own eyes, as was the case with Israel on numerous occasions,as God continually accused them of.

And which commandments are we to observe besides the one to Love the LORD our God with our whole heart, soul mind and our strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves?
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Deut 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatever is right in his own eyes.

So your convictions should be our convictions? hmm interesting.
Quote:
He has certainly NOT commanded us to keep or observe this seasonal feast(festival)nor celebrate His birth annually. Every and all His commands concerning what He instituted(i.e. the church,the state,the family,baptism,the bread and the cup of His New Covenant,etc.)are expressly taught in detail in Scripture as to their observance and order. 1 Cor. 5:7,8 Cleanse out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I must be really disobeying God because I don't observe any of those carnal ordinances at all. What Jesus did under the old covenant were shadows. He was still under that old school master and everything that was said or done were done in similitude's. When He told His disciples to "do oft in remembrance of me", He was telling them to exactly what He was doing. He broke bread, THIS IS MY BODY. Now, you do the same thing. Breaking a piece of bread made from the bakery will do nothing for you spiritually. HE WANTS YOU TO BE BROKEN.
Quote:
You take your brush and paint too broad a stroke. We may not go beyond the scripture as has been pointed out above. We are in the world and yet we are not of it. Yet the world need not be in us with its idols. We must tear them down that they not have a stronghold in our hearts. I speak of the idolatry not of statues but of the thoughts,lies and philosophies of men which must be taken captive to the obedience of Christ.

Amen

Quote:
We are not given liberty to invent new ways or new days of sacredness or worship.

There is where you and I part. I can set up any day I like and make that sacred. Paul had a sacred day. Every year he shaved his hair clean off. That will be my next prayer, "LORD, I want to worship you in a new way, show it to me".

Lev. 18:30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your God

Um...what's abominable about decorating a tree? What is unclean about it? Is there sodomites dangling from the bows? Are there fornicators under the tree?

Just a side note, I don't put up a tree, I haven't put up a tree in years. But I argue the point that there is nothing wrong with it. God has no trouble with it unless your motive is wrong. If you know full well that this is a bad idea and you put it up anyway, your not being true to God. It's not all these scriptures your pulling out of the hat to show that this is evil.

Brother, you surprise me. I had you pegged as someone who was very spiritual and enlightened, but your very carnal. Your use of the scriptures are carnal. We don't observe the law like the way you are quoting them for us to observe. The New Testament is not like that at all. He said that He would write His law on the tables of our heart. If I started obeying the letter I am in trouble. But if I let the Spirit of God lead me into all truth then I am safe. So far the Holy Spirit has not told me that Christmas is evil.

1 Thess. 5:21-24 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Again, you see Christmas as evil, so for you, abstain from it. For moi, it's a fun season.

Jer. 10:1-4 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh to you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it may not move.

He is talking about creating an image. If you notice the wording, "The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax", he is taking the tree and making something out of it. They deck it with silver and gold, they beat silver and gold unto the wooden image, they nail it to the wall their god so it can't move. This was a common practice among the heathen and Israel was doing the same thing.

1 Cor. 5:9-13 I wrote unto you in an Epistle, not to company with fornicators. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you, not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, no, not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without, God judgeth. Therefore put away from among your selves that wicked person.

Okay, not sure where your going with this one.

Rev 22:13-15 I am the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and End--the First and the Last. `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whore mongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

I would like for you to judge Corrie Ten Boom for a moment.

She had built in her bedroom a false wall so that she could hide Jews. When the Secret Service came to her and demanded of her if she was hiding Jews she denied that she was.

Though it never entered her mind to repent of the lie, will she enter into heaven?

This is a question that can be answered so don't give an excuse not to.

If the answer is yes, then we are dealing with a different type of lie. And with that, we should find out what kind that is.
Quote:
'Everyone who is loving and is doing a lie'. I contend that everyone affectionately embracing and practicing this lie of the Christ-Mass Festivities is guilty of the idolatrous practices attached to the same,and we are not to be partakers with them of their sins but to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.

It's only a lie to you Brother. And I don't really know what you mean by partakers of those that sin and fellow shipping with the unfruitful works of darkness. Um.. my family are believers, called out, pre selected before the foundations of the world.
Quote:
But it does make a difference to you because you celebrate December 25.

Yes, because it's a good time to do it. I am not going to deck the halls in July, or sing Silent Night while having a BBQ.
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What knowledge do you go on?

The knowledge that I am His son and I am not limited to just what is in the bible.
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Christ-Mass; What is it?

Historically I don't really care. It's like arguing that we should stop observing Sunday as our day of worship. Sunday and Christmas are two of the days where the origins are that of the sungod. Our days of the week and the months are all from mythology. Should we stop using the days of the week for planning our dates and appointments? After all, Wednesday is really "odin's day". Saturday is Saturn.

Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Merry Christmas

 2009/11/29 22:52









 Re:


Wowzers JS, that was a great post. You said it better than I could.

 2009/11/29 23:02
JS
Member



Joined: 2009/11/23
Posts: 32
Behind a Computer Desk

 Re:

Quote:
Wowzers JS, that was a great post. You said it better than I could.


Are you sure that was me? I couldn't possibly write anything that well; it was the work of the Holy Spirit! :-D

 2009/11/29 23:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One of the things that has been on my heart is that I have read that its not Biblical to celebrate Christmas because we are not instructed to in the Bible. We are not told to celebrate birthdays at all, not our own, or the birthdays of those around us. Is it wrong then to do so? Same with other days of remembrance, Memorial day, veterans day, fourth of July, New years day, Thanksgiving, etc? Would observing or taking part in any of these days be considered not Biblical? Please know this is not being asked lightly I really do want to understand the differences...

Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Sister, it's up to you what you want to do. Give God thanks for not having Christmas, or give God thanks for having it.

I love these holidays because it's really the only time that my family have time off from work to sit down and have a great time around the table.

 2009/11/29 23:07
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re:

Quote:

MaryJane wrote:
Greetings

This topic of celebrating has been on my heart for a long time, a very long time. To be honest I find myself wishing this time of year would not come all year long then when it does I spend all the days after Thanksgiving wishing it would hurry and be over. I have read so much on this topic that my head hurts from all the differing points of view, each using scripture to support their take on things. Its all very confusing and as I seek to know the Lords heart on this I find myself still just wishing it was already January first.

One of the things that has been on my heart is that I have read that its not Biblical to celebrate Christmas because we are not instructed to in the Bible. We are not told to celebrate birthdays at all, not our own, or the birthdays of those around us. Is it wrong then to do so? Same with other days of remembrance, Memorial day, veterans day, fourth of July, New years day, Thanksgiving, ect? Would observing or taking part in any of these days be considered not Biblical? Please know this is not being asked lightly I really do want to understand the differences...

God Bless
mj


Hi MaryJane,

Just ask the Lord to show you what He thinks of these things. Ask Him to let you see it as He sees it. But be prepared - what He showed me brought horror to my heart . . . and the understanding only makes the whole thing worse for you can not deny that which you know to be true . . .

 2009/11/29 23:23Profile





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