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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Unconverted People allowed in Church?

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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

I would be amazed if you could fit your point of view with Galatians 5:7-11 and 1 Corinthians 5:3-13.

There is no contradiction in Scripture.

It would be interesting to note that one cannot easily distinguish wheat from tares until the time of harvest.

I would submit to you that we do not have tares among the wheat in the 'church' rather we have TREES of IDOLATRY growing amidst a few stalks of wheat. It does not take a rocket scientist to identify a tree from a stalk of wheat.

Today's 'tares' look nothing like wheat, smell nothing like wheat, taste nothing like wheat, and yet we call them 'tares.'

They don't even qualify as tares.

Listen... Jesus was clearly stating in those passages for us not to try to distinguish, by nit picking details, over people's seemingly GENUINE CONVERSION.

People that act like true Christians, look like true Christians, adhere to true Christian doctrine, evangelize like true Christians, MAY BE POSSIBLY LOST.

Christ is saying, do not try to nitpick true converts from false converts, who look the same on the outside.

Christ is not saying, do not remove CLEAR false professors from your fellowship. You dig it?

-edit for grammar / Scripture references-


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/11/21 15:07Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

According to your interpretation of Matthew 13:24-30, Paul is going against the clear revelation of God.

Thus Scripture is broken, and God doesn't exist.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/11/21 15:22Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3385
East TN (for now)

 Re: New Tares in the Church?

Quote:
IWantAnguish wrote:
-edit-
It would be interesting to note that one cannot easily distinguish wheat from tares until the time of harvest......

Today's 'tares' look nothing like wheat, smell nothing like wheat, taste nothing like wheat, and yet we call them 'tares.'

They don't even qualify as tares.

Listen... Jesus was clearly stating in those passages for us not to try to distinguish...

Were not we called to live a victorious life through the empowering of the Holy Spirit, as a radical group of people, making Jesus Christ shown worthy of a life of sacrifice?


Bro Anguish,

First off, are the tares causing you to not living a victorious life? Is that why you want to get rid of them? How have they hindered you? I submit that the sacrifice we are to make is the sacrifice of giving up [b]our[/b] fleshly desires; NOT sacrificing the tares!!!

Secondly and another train of thought from above, Jesus was quite clear that we are to let the tares and wheat grow together lest if we try we could very possibly pull the wheat out by the roots - killing the wheat; so by our instruction of leaving them alone and letting them grow together, we are [b]trusting Him alone[/b] with the task of dividing the tares and the wheat up.

From reading your posts on this topic, you are having trouble doing that and that is understandable because that is a whole other level of trust (the come up hither kind). But it is clear to me that what you say about tares and what the Bible says about tares are polar opposites so if it's all the same to you I will believe my KJV Bible and my Holy Ghost over your questionable opinion on the matter. I hope you can dig it!
;-)


_________________
Lisa

 2009/11/21 17:35Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
i do not understand brothertoms post



Apparently, you are too young to remember the things he is talking about. I am 62 YO and I remember well, know full well what he is saying cause I lived through the era he is referring to.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/11/21 20:38Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re: Unconverted People allowed in Church?

I am a tad bit confused by your question. Scripture is clear that unconverted persons were or may be in the audience...

But 'unconverted people allowed in church?' My take on this issue is that a body of believers should have membership in which all would agree to what constitutes a Christian walk of life. If any fall into sin, they will be dealt with and if there is no repentance, they will be excommunicated.

I have heard of churches who abandoned membership rolls only to have people come in and wreck that brotherhood.

Is this what you are talking about?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/11/21 20:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Thus Scripture is broken, and God doesn't exist.

Anguish, why not admit that your wrong. I mean that is quite a stretch of statement here. People here have given good scriptural valid statements that the unconverted can and will come into the Church.

Isn't one of the disciplines of the word of God Correction? Take the correction and blend back into the fellowship. 8-)

However, I am willing to admit that I might not fully understand what your asking. Perhaps you could clarify the question and zero in on what exactly your trying to convey. :-(

 2009/11/21 21:57









 Re:

Quote:
My first encounter with it came in the early 90s, with the advent of the "USER FRIENDLY" model of evangelism. It was built upon the idea that LOVE was all we need, and by serving people, JUST AS THEY ARE!, AND RECEIVING THEM, JUST AS THEY ARE! they would recognize God's love in us, the Church, and want what we had; Salvation.

How I remember the 90's. I had two ladies come to the Bakery door one afternoon and they were telling me about how the young kids were coming into the Church because of the "Christian Rock" music to which I immediately protested and they responded with, "Well, it's getting them into the Church". They were not interested in if they would change or not, they thought that if they were in the four walls of that building that they were saved. And maybe some did come to a place of repentance, who knows and I don't want to limit God. But I can't help but think of those that have been told the lie and believed it, where are they today? Most likely hardened.

 2009/11/21 22:13
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Tradition of men > Scripture.

American Christianity is flourishing and millions are being swept into the Kingdom.

I hope we can export our beautiful methods to the 3rd world so that they may learn from our ways.

God bless America.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/11/21 22:48Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3385
East TN (for now)

 Re: Questions from God....

I am thoroughly disgusted with your intent on this thread, I had about three or four responses to you but I’ll just post these questions from God....

Just a few of the questions from Job 38-41
[b]Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.[/b]

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? [b]Tell Me, if you have understanding. [/b]
Who determined its measurements? [b]Surely YOU know![/b] Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it?

Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
Have the gates of death been revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth? [b]Tell Me, if you know all this.[/b]

Where is the way to the dwelling of light?

Can you set their dominion over the earth?
Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, that an abundance of water may cover you?
Can you send out lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven, when the dust hardens in clumps, and the clods cling together?
Can you hunt the prey for the lion, or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, when they crouch in their dens, or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?

Would you indeed annul My judgment?
[b]Would you condemn Me that you may be justified?[/b]
Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His?
Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook, or snare his tongue with a line which you lower?
Can you put a reed through his nose, or pierce his jaw with a hook?
Will he make many supplications to you?
Will he speak softly to you?
Will he make a covenant with you?
Will you take him as a servant forever?
Will you play with him as with a bird, or will you leash him for your maidens?
Will your companions make a banquet of him?
Will they apportion him among the merchants?
Can you fill his skin with harpoons, or his head with fishing spears?

[b]Who then is able to stand against Me?[/b]

[b]Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him?[/b]


_________________
Lisa

 2009/11/21 23:00Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Are you equating your opinion / conviction as God's ?

Let us be honest and real.

What would happen if we exported our practice of contemporary 'church' and 'worship' to Afghanistan? Or Iran? Or any Muslim nation?

How long do you think it would survive?

Be honest.

This weak, effeminate, spineless mass of corruption has been white-washed and stamped with the word 'Christianity...' thus it may pass as authentic for the moment in America because there is no persecution.

I would be as bold as to say that Christ was speaking about those of us, even here on this blessed website, as the wheat and the tares, and that we may not know for sure as to who was / is / shall be saved until the judgment seat of Christ.

Puts a whole nother spin on Phil. 2:12

-edit-

I am thoroughly amazed that you have been given the gift of mind reading, and thus are able to ascertain my intent in this thread.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/11/21 23:57Profile





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