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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Unconverted People allowed in Church?

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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Unconverted People allowed in Church?

Should we continue to have Sunday worship services mixed with the unconverted goats within?

Why do we call out for revival, extra-biblical manifestations when we can't even worship God as He ought to be worshiped, due to catering to unsaved believers within the 'church?'

My question is this: Is it biblical to allow unconverted church people within our worship / fellowship?

If it is not biblical, (which I believe it isn't) shouldn't we be more active in witnessing our faith to others in our daily lives, rather than relying on the pastorate to convert unconverted believers who attend every week?

Is the gospel to be spread throughout this world through pastors in buildings?

When are we going to get back to the book of Acts?

Our "Christian" standard is so far below that of the apostles, I do not know what they would say of us, if they were still alive. We know practically nothing of God's holiness, and His righteousness. Perhaps we have head knowledge, but no true relational knowledge of God.

Do we really believe that without holiness no one will see the Lord? What are we doing with our lives? Were we saved to simply struggle with sin and limp into eternal glory? Were not we called to live a victorious life through the empowering of the Holy Spirit, as a radical group of people, making Jesus Christ shown worthy of a life of sacrifice?

What am I doing with my life... What are we as 'Christians' doing with our lives?


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Sam Yoon

 2009/11/20 14:41Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: Unconverted People allowed in Church?

IWantAnguish wrote:

Quote:


Should we continue to have Sunday worship services mixed with the unconverted goats within?




[u][b]Luke 14:7-14 (NKJV) [/b][/u]


[b]Take the Lowly Place[/b]


So He told a parable to those who were invited, when He noted how they chose the best places, saying to them: “When you are invited by anyone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in the best place, lest one more honorable than you be invited by him; and he who invited you and him come and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you begin with shame to take the lowest place. But when you are invited, go and sit down in the lowest place, so that when he who invited you comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, go up higher.’ Then you will have glory in the presence of those who sit at the table with you. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Then He also said to him who invited Him, “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”


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Christiaan

 2009/11/20 15:04Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

[u][b]Luke 5:29-30 (NKJV)[/b][/u]


Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”


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Christiaan

 2009/11/20 15:06Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

I am in no way insinuating that we should not preach to the lost...

People always bring up the fact that Jesus went straight to the sinners and tax collectors, and thus justify that we ought to have unconverted believers in our fellowship...

I would submit to you that this ought not be.

Why?

Those sinners in Jesus' time knew they were sinners, and in desperate need of a savior.

These sinners in our churches don't even know they're lost, and they think they're going to heaven...


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Sam Yoon

 2009/11/20 15:09Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Thank you for your gracious reply. I pray that I can convey my thoughts on this matter with love and respect.



IWantAnguish wrote:


Quote:
Those sinners in Jesus' time knew they were sinners, and in desperate need of a savior.

These sinners in our churches don't even know they're lost, and they think they're going to heaven...




Brother, isn't this an assumption on your part? Some places of worship will blast the congregation and preach the "turn or burn" sermons. From what I've seen, these are not the most effective way of reaching unsaved people at churches, because as the old saying goes... "Your preaching to the converted". Most places that preach this loose the unsaved pretty quick I would think, and then you are left with only church membership.

Most of the people that I bring into fellowship at our House Church, and at our place of worship on Sunday, understand that they are missing something...they are lost. They see that we have something that they desire...and it entices them. Sometimes they don't understand the need for a savior yet, but it can be a process for some. In the Lord's timing, He reveals Himself to them.

When they see that your life is not bound by this world, it intrigues them. When Jesus' light shines through the darkness, and they see that your solid in the midst of chaos, they wonder why...

Every minute of the day is a witness to and for the Lord. It doesn't matter if it is in a church, marketplace, baseball game or in a jail cell... Christ is to be preached to the lost.

So to answer your question if we should stand side by side with unsaved sinners in a church setting...

Yes. Not everyone is called to be an evangalist, pastor or a teacher, but we are called to preach Christ amongst the Nations. Some may do this at a street corner, others may do this by inviting them to a church. Others may do this by loving those who are tormenting and torturing them... it really matters not, as long as Christ is preached.




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Christiaan

 2009/11/20 15:30Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3385
Louisiana

 Re: Unconverted People allowed in Church?

Yes, we should allow sinners in our services, and the true gospel of Jesus Christ should be preached so that the Holy Spirit will have the opportunity to convict them of their sins.

The problem with many churches in this country is that sinners are made to feel confortable in our services and they even leave the service feeling good about themselves.

The true gospel being preached would effect sinners in one of two ways. Either they would recieve the message and being convicted of their sins would be saved, or they would reject it and become so uncomfortable in that atmosphere that they would not want to go back to that place.

Mike


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Mike

 2009/11/20 15:40Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

I am simply going by statistics that say that 60-70% of Americans have been 'born again.'

Not an assumption.

And I know for a fact that the great majority of those within that % are going to hell, because Jesus said, Many will say Lord Lord, and that few will find entrance.

My question is this... Is it biblical / possible to function as the True Church while allowing the nominal Christians 'church attendance' week by week?

I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5

I'm not including those that you speak of, the honest searchers who are willing to bend the knee to the Lordship of Christ.

I'm talking about those who say they are saved, and yet they live as children of the devil.


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Sam Yoon

 2009/11/20 15:42Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

You will not find any place in scripture, apostles or disciples of Christ, bringing unbelievers to 'church' or group meetings or worship services or fellowship or the communion table in order to get them saved.

Who are we to do the things that those great saints of past did not do?

Are we not to follow the Word of God, and to bring every thought and deed captive to the Word of God?

Should not our weekly fellowship reflect what is found in the Word of God?

Or shall we continue in the traditions of men, because 'it works?' When apparently, it doesn't.

The most godless and disgusting nation on the face of the earth. USA.


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Sam Yoon

 2009/11/20 15:50Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


IWantAnguish wrote:

Quote:


I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.




Brother. I respect that this is your opinion. If this is how you feel and are feeling lead to this from the Lord, who am I to refute?

But you have quoted that, [i]"You will not find any place in scripture, apostles or disciples of Christ, bringing unbelievers to 'church' or group meetings or worship services or fellowship or the communion table in order to get them saved."[/i]

Nor will you find
Quote:
I would say... Kick em out or get em saved. There is no middle ground.

.

You will find warnings on non-belief, but nothing to do with a gathering unless in willful sin.

This really has to do with personal preference. Who are any of us to tell someone attending a church to leave because they may not be as far along in their walk as we are? Is there now a requirement that one HAS to be saved before they can come to a worshop service?

I will tell you this, I would rather be in the midst of a bunch of unsaved sinners then in a "holy huddle" at worship. Again, preference.
:-)


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Christiaan

 2009/11/20 16:20Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Unconverted People allowed in Church?

Anguish,

I totally misunderstood what you were asking so I deleted my first answer because I do not want to be associated with this ... this... this...
anti-semitism (sp?) against God's people who YOU declare not to be God's people. Amazing arrogance on your part, if you ask me. On page three, I have some questions for you!

...[i]but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. [/i]
Ac 10:28b


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Lisa

 2009/11/20 17:23Profile





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