| Faith is a work?|
I read this passage today and i wondered what the Lord meant, i will post the verses and my thoughts.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. (Joh 6:27 KJV)
Here i think we see what we should put our effort on, our time and energy, devout our strength to labour for the life Jesus gives us, He gives it and we labour to receive it to make the most out of the grace he has given us as a gift.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (Joh 6:28 KJV)
and here i think is a question worth considering, its kind of other questions we find in scripture, but its interesting i thought, what must i do, to work Gods work? I think we see in the verse before that it all comes from him, he is the giver.... and i must work, but my real question is what the Lord Jesus says in the next verse. He answers like this.
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
(Joh 6:29 KJV)
Now since english can be a bit unspecified sometimes :-) i looked in swedich translation and it says a bit different, and my knowledge in greek is limited. But the "work of God" here in swedish seems to imply that it is the human working so to speak, so that "faith" is a work in itself.
what i am saying is when we are saying you are saved by faith, then we are saved by works (depending on definition) since faith is a kind of work, something we do. Even tho it originates from Him. Maybe i am confusing you all?
Not aiming at a debate on salvation faith vs works since i am convinced scripture clearly shows we are saved by faith, but.... faith is a work in it self. Even tho it is given by God.
Anyone has any thoughts on this passage that can shed some further light?
| 2009/11/12 15:22||Profile|
| Re: Faith is a work?|
I understand that the words FAITH and FAITHFULNESS are essentially the same and can be used interchangebly. That said, it would mean faith is trusting God. Regarding salvation this means trusting what God says about sin and trusting Jesus as our salvation from sin.
James tells us that true faith cannot be seperated from works. Faith ALWAYS ACTS on what it is believing. To say you have faith and not act on what you profess to believe is non-faith (or dead faith). So in a sense faith is aways a work in that it will be shown by what we do.
So in other words faith is not some feeling, or force, or something intelectual, but it is how we live our life. It is the 'substance' of what we hope (hope is that which we know God has said).
Do know if that helps any?
| 2009/11/12 16:23||Profile|
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Faith is a work of God that is received as a gift. "Faith comes," Paul says, "...by hearing the word of God." So, faith cannot be said to be a work of man, rather, it is a work of God that depends on the creative power found within the proclaimed word.
| 2009/11/12 18:15||Profile|
East TN (for now)
| Re: faith and works|
Im really glad that you pointed this verse out (to me anyway!) because Ive been seeking God on some things and this helps me to be more focused
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, [b]What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [/b](Joh 6:28 KJV)
This is my understanding about faith and works (it's not written in stone). . . we receive a measure of faith when we come to believe and of course, we cant believe unless weve heard but we all receive a measure whatever God deems the measure to be. What we do with that measure after we receive it is up to us. Like the parable of the talent.
Therefore, we can die with that same measure or we can work to cultivate more faith! I believe this is in line with your statement: [i] faith is a work in itself. Even tho it is given by God. [/i]
Thanks again for this thought and "faith" provoking topic! God bless you!
| 2009/11/12 20:26||Profile|
| Re: |
Understanding of this concept that 'Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness' came to me one day. Simply put God spoke, Abraham believed God and acted on it. Romans 3:4. Otherwise he was a good man, but not good enough before God. What made him pleasing to God was his obedience to Him! After studying Romans I have come to the conclusion that this faith and obedience are interchangeable in many ways.
| 2009/11/12 23:08||Profile|
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hi, by faith noah built an ark to the saving of his family... by faith abram left his home in search for a city...all faith requires obedience to that which God speaks to you to do...repent...give up your control and give your life to Christ... present your body as a living sacrifice...walk in the spirit... all by faith. jimp
| 2009/11/12 23:24||Profile|
| Re: |
by KingJimmy on 2009/11/12 15:15:37 Faith is a work of God that is received as a gift. "Faith comes," Paul says, "...by hearing the word of God." So, faith cannot be said to be a work of man, rather, it is a work of God that depends on the creative power found within the proclaimed word.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.
If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel, that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor forbidden, but free; or that the ten commandments in no way pertain to Christians, let him be anathema.
If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the Church, but only to believe, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema.
| 2009/11/13 1:52|
VCU @ Richmond, VA
| Re: |
Faith is not some abstract principle.
Faith is always based on fact.
Based upon the facts you know about God, which He has revealed to you through the work of His son Jesus Christ... Key word is revelation.
The outworking of objective truth of God is faith.
| 2009/11/13 11:13||Profile|
| Re: |
since many kinda twarted this thread into something it was not meant to, i wanted to say thankyou for all your answers and thoughts.
dont you think anathema should be used in the same context Paul used it? he wrote it to the galatians who where trying to go back and be justified by the law and not by faith.
| 2009/11/13 11:51||Profile|
| Re: |
I was reading this, this morning and thought that it kind of fit here.
Faith, and Drawing Near to a Person
After reading and thinking recently about how holiness is a relational issue, intertwined lives, i was thinking about how FAITH is also a relational thingJesus isnt asking us to believe in and trust concepts, or words, but a Person, The Word, and it changes everything when i draw near to a PERSON rather than concepts, ideas, or words. The Love of the Person who has made and keeps all His Promises shatters all my fears, and He ALWAYS proves Himself TRUE, in ways beyond my grasp. So what am i saying? Just as holiness is always about a relationship (set apart FOR __)not a simply a lifestyle or action, so also is faith always about a relationship. My ability to grasp ideas and retain concepts and remember and execute ordinances is exceedingly limited and fluctuates daily, but the invitation for me to turn to, cling to, rely on and respond to a PERSON is open forever, and that changes everything because then its all about Him and not limited by me. My relationship with this reliable, dependable, responsive, protective, determined, committed, fully-capable Person is what sustains me, hourly, and it is in HIM that i so fully BELIEVE, and the more i turn to Him, the more He proves Himself all of those things and more....................Faith is a RELATIONSHIP, with The Man who performs miracles of healing and forgiveness and life in the hearts of all who BELIEVE in Him, and with all those who likewise are Connected to Him. We sustain each other, in His presence. We believe in this One who is our strength and our portion and our righteousness and our peace forever. Rest all your weight on this Person, Jesus, because He cares for you, and discover Him intimately as the end of all your longings and find FAITH alive in your heart because you have been touched by The Living God who daily bears your burdens and hears your cries and never forgets you............ Faith is borne of a RELATIONSHIP.
How does one find freedom from the power and penalty of sin?
Faith is, amongst many things, Believing in Gods Characteras GOOD.
Faith is trusting His Vow, His Word, that the pleasure of being near Him FAR exceeds the pleasures of sin!!!
Faith and love result, ALWAYS, in obedience to Him, for that reason. God delivers from sin and death those who Believe! In the Garden, satan would have had us believe that Father is trying to cheat usand the worms tactics have not changed.
We choose to Trust Him by rejecting for Him what He has called sinand never justifying it or blaming Him, or blaming circumstances, or blaming others, or mind-blocking in an attempt to make His Word go away or mean something different.
Faith is Believing HE IS GOOD, and that His Choices and Ways are FAR BETTER THAN SIN and self-service. He is Good. He LONGS to give good gifts to His Children and is far wiser than His little ones in knowing what IS good.
THIS, then, is the Victory that overcomes the world: our FAITH. Trusting that He is sufficient, that He is wise, that He is kind and generous. And, Faith is believing that what He says about sin is for our GOOD, not to cheat us. Faith! Trust! And how can we please Him without Faith?!
He IS Good.
| 2009/11/13 12:07||Profile|