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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : Guys, I don't think I'm ever going to be saved

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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

I read into some writings of annihilationism, and it ended up leaving me depressed.

If there is no hell, God cannot be God. Annihilationism makes a mockery of the holiness and justice of God.

God is holy, therefore He will do what is just towards sinners who reject Christ.

Christ has made the payment, thus anyone who rejects Christ, has no one to blame but himself.


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Sba

 2009/11/10 23:13Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I once briefly struggled with the idea of hell. But then I believe God caused me to see, as absolutely miserable as it will be for billions of people to spend eternity literally burning in fire and in torment, as bad as all of that is, it is nothing compared to the sufferings of Jesus Christ on the cross. The King of kings and Lord of lords; the Alpha and the Omega; the Beginning and the End; the Creator of all things seen and unseen; He who was born of a virgin and lived a perfect and sinless life, this man, Jesus Christ, died the death of a criminal, and suffered the wrath of God meant for us on the Cross.

Hell is a pretty terrifying thought when one truly thinks about it. But, I believe there is nothing more terrifying to think of than the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. In all eternity, as bad as hell will be, there will be nothing that was ever as bad as what Jesus Christ went through for you and for me on that cross.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/10 23:25Profile
jmooney6
Member



Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


 Re:

I too am struggling right now, not so much whether I'm going to hell or not, but rather sad and upset not knowing if my parents are saved. They say they are, but they don't live like it. I just can't imagine spending an eternity in Heaven knowing the parents I know and love are spending eternity in Hell.

I try to talk to them about things. Mom wishes to cleave to her idea of Catholicism, Dad wishes to go along with Mom's beliefs. It still ends up in arguments, but not explosive. If I see it starting to heat up, I don't say anything.

I don't know what to do, because these thoughts are also plaguing my relationship (whether I am already saved or am working on that salvation).


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Jim

 2009/11/11 0:19Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re: Guys, I don't think I'm ever going to be saved

hi, the place called hell never enters my daily thoughts...sin very rarely enters them either ... i look unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of my faith ... whatsoever things that are holy etc. think on these things...rejoice evermore for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you...if you have believed into[eos] Jesus and have released the lordship of your life to him as a living sacrifice than you are hid with Christ in God and need not worry but have faith that He who began a work in you shall complete it... a man asked to be licensed as a river pilot here in louisiana and was asked if he knew where all the problems,which are many , are in the river... he said of course i dont know of all the problems in the Mississippi. but i do know where the channel is and how to keep the ship safely therein.JESUS is the route[way truth life]dont look at all the stuff that really doesnt effect you but unto Jesus.jimp

 2009/11/11 0:47Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

jmooney6 wrote:
I too am struggling right now, not so much whether I'm going to hell or not, but rather sad and upset not knowing if my parents are saved. They say they are, but they don't live like it. I just can't imagine spending an eternity in Heaven knowing the parents I know and love are spending eternity in Hell.

I try to talk to them about things. Mom wishes to cleave to her idea of Catholicism, Dad wishes to go along with Mom's beliefs. It still ends up in arguments, but not explosive. If I see it starting to heat up, I don't say anything.

I don't know what to do, because these thoughts are also plaguing my relationship (whether I am already saved or am working on that salvation).



Dear Jim,

Be patient and don't rush things. At this point, the more you push, the more they will dig in their heels and push back, and things will become more difficult than before. I know because I too come from a Catholic family.

It will be better for you to just work out your own walk with Christ before them each day. Enjoy your life in Jesus - savor the joy, the peace and most important, grow in the knowledge of His word. It is knowledge of the Word that will bring you to maturity in Christ. The more they see Jesus in you, the more they will thirst for Him, and their resistance will slowly crumble. Even as you avoid sharing directly with them to keep the peace, pray for them because God can win them through others also. And always show your parents the love and respect that is due them as commanded by God.

God loves them as much as he loves you, and He will try to win them over even if you were not in the picture. But your presence as a living temple of Christ before them will play a huge role in their salvation. The best thing you can do for their salvation is to be a shining example of what a true Christian is, and the love of Christ which will flow through you into them will bear fruit.

I'll be praying for your growth and their salvation.

 2009/11/11 1:24Profile









 Re: Guys, I don't think I'm ever going to be saved

Philippians 2:12, 13

Ver. 12. With fear and trembling. That is, be equally upon your guard against presumption and despair. St. Paul is anxious to inspire a just confidence in Jesus Christ, but he is not less solicitous to root out all self-confidence arising from our supposed merits or excellence.

Ver. 13. It is God who worketh in you both to will and to accomplish. We can neither have a will, nor begin, nor fulfil any thing of ourselves, in order to a reward in heaven. (Witham) --- Our free-will is not taken away, or we should not be commanded to work; but it is added, with fear and trembling, says St. Augustine, that we might not be proud of our good works. (De grat. et de lib. ab. chap. ix.)

 2009/11/11 1:25









 Re:

Quote:
by jmooney6 on 2009/11/10 21:19:13 I too am struggling right now, not so much whether I'm going to hell or not, but rather sad and upset not knowing if my parents are saved. They say they are, but they don't live like it. I just can't imagine spending an eternity in Heaven knowing the parents I know and love are spending eternity in Hell. I try to talk to them about things. Mom wishes to cleave to her idea of Catholicism, Dad wishes to go along with Mom's beliefs. It still ends up in arguments, but not explosive. If I see it starting to heat up, I don't say anything. I don't know what to do, because these thoughts are also plaguing my relationship (whether I am already saved or am working on that salvation).



Jim,

I suggest you really ask your Mom in sincerity why she believes what she does. Then listen.

If your parents aren't living a holy life, they cannot properly be called Catholic.

I encourage you to get out a Catholic catechism and show them where the Catholic church has always condemned their sinful lifestyle.

They probably know the only true Church is the Catholic Church. But they may be cafeteria Catholics...picking and choosing which doctrines to believe. This is unacceptable and definitely NOT Catholic Christianity.

BTW...as to being "saved." Only those who endure to the end are ultimately "saved." Yes, it is possible to gain the state of saving grace and to lose it. So focus on your and their final state.

God bless you.

 2009/11/11 1:31
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 392


 Re:

Sorry I do not mean to add posts here as it is to others and not the original poster.

MJ,

Quote:
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


Here you can see that God judges according to responsibility at different levels.

Quote:
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


Treasuring up denotes that you can add to your judgment. The most clear word here is that He renders according to His deeds or as much as His sins deserve.

Quote:
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Here you can see that some sins are greater then others.

Quote:
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.


This indicates that God usually gives what is deserved since giving her double is a special case. The fact that she fills a cup would also show measurement and levels of addition unto a corresponding judgment.

I could probably think of more. Like when Jesus said woe to you Chorazin for if the mighty works which had been done in you had been done in Sodom they would have repented. Indicating that Chorazin will receive a greater judgment then Sodom because of their accountability level by saying woe and comparing them. I think though that generally it is just the nature of God to be just and part of being just would be to give out equal punishments to the sin committed. If Stalin were not more greatly judged that would be outrageous. If a man in a dark land with no full witness of the Gospel who took care of his family and things like that though for sure was a sinner like all men before Christ were judged equally with Hitler that would be outrageous. So, I think we can be glad to say that God does not put full wrath for eternity on every single human being though of course any place outside of Christ in any level of hell for eternity is a great depth of woe.



 2009/11/11 1:43Profile









 Re:

I struggle with the fear of hell everyday since first I read my Bible when I was 13. I'm now just about 20 and still fear hell and unsure if I'll ever be saved. As the years go on, it gets worse.

I could go to sleep tonight and not wake up tomorrow and I don't know what would happen. It's really scary at times. I wonder how I'm going to die and what is going to happen.

My mind is weighed down with these thoughts. I've questioned in an "eternal" hell. I used to be a firm believer in the eternity of hell. I'm still a believer in that but It's really hard to swallow nowadays especially when someone dies that you know.

If God is God, He could save everyone. I don't see how leaving a person in hell forever would be better.

God is just but isn't there some other way? Perhaps we read scripture wrong. Perhaps when God killed people in this world, like in the Old Testament when He opens the ground and consumes thousands, that is their punishment. I know this sounds like univeralism but It's bad enough that we must go through death. Ontop of that, to spend eternity in hell is unbearable. I have to sigh everyday because I fear that is my plight. It's very hard to live. Hard to just breath a calm breathe. Thinking that God is waiting for my time to send me to hell. Or He's preparing a nice hell for me. I don't get it.

I hear people say that such and such people are in hell but they just don't know what their saying.

 2009/11/11 4:38
jmooney6
Member



Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


 Re:

Brother Leo,

You have always lovingly and tenderly guided me in my struggles, and I am truly grateful. After posting yesterday, I was overcome with such a grief I could barely kneel let alone refrain from weeping. I kept praying for my parents until I felt a sense of relief. I woke up and still felt this sense of burden on my heart. Your advice is really fantastic! Just concentrate on my own walk and be a living example, something for my parents to strive for. Of course, this is why I back out of any arguments that come up, so that I don't disrespect these people I care deeply for.

Brother Haydock, thank you as well for answering my post. I did ask before what or why Mom believed what she did, and she said it was due to her mother being Catholic, her mother's parents, etc. (A 'generations' explanation if you will.) My father, on the other hand, was raised another denomination but fell away from it in his sailor days. He became Catholic so that I would be raised under one religion and not two separate denominations. Cafeteria Catholics aptly describes my parents, so there may be hope yet. But everytime Mom brings up something and I say "I don't believe in that" (usually St. Worship and prayer cards), I feel like I'm slapping her in the face and disrespecting her feelings.

That being said, if one gains the state of saving grace but loses it, is it possible for that person to once-again cleave to Jesus for salvation, or is that person doomed for Hell? I started my Christian walk a couple months ago in September, and I recently backslid and am afraid I could be headed somewhere I don't want to go. The backslide is my responsibility, but how do I fix things? (Sometimes I just wish I was more mature in the faith so I was certain about things!)

There are many things that weigh me down on a daily basis, and I thank God for all of you and your prayers. They mean a lot to me. May God bless you all! (And you too brother JDL for having patience with me.)


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Jim

 2009/11/11 10:21Profile





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