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 Re: church baptism by setting captives free

Acts 22:16

Ver. 16. Wash, &c. The contrition and charity of St. Paul had, no doubt, merited for him the remission of his sins at the moment of his conversion. Still were these effects to be attributed to the desire of the sacrament of baptism, without which the council of Trent defines that the forgiveness of sins, and the punishment due to them, are not obtained. It likewise added a new degree of lustre to his innocence and purity. (Tirinus) --- Calling upon his name. In such manner, says St. Chrysostom, (hom. xlvii.) as we invoke the only true God; and as we invoke the saints, and pray to them, that they would pray for us. (Witham)

Acts 2:38

Ver. 38. Be baptized: believing and making profession to believe, and hope for salvation, by the merits of Jesus Christ. Thus you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the grace of God, and perhaps those other gifts of speaking with tongues, working miracles, &c. (Witham) --- The gift of the Holy Ghost. That is, justifying grace, which is infused in our hearts by the laver of regeneration. The exterior gifts of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues, of miracles, prophecy, &c. were, in the beginning of the Church, more regularly the consequences of confirmation or imposition of hands. (Calmet)

 2009/11/10 18:11
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

We need to consider that our God is a 'consuming fire' Heb. 12:28-29. That is part of His nature. it is His holiness.

In the light of this, God's fire will bring judgement on all sin and all sinners. Therefore any unrighteousness that comes into contact with the Holy God will be burned up and consummed. Remember what happened to Nadab and Abihu when they presumed to come into God's presence and offered profane (unholy) sacrifice; God sent His fire of judgement. Lev. 10:1-3.

When a true and correct offering is made the fire of God consumes that offering. Lev. 9:22-24. Jesus Chrst is our sin offering, so when we come to God on the basis of the scarifice of Jesus Christ we are not consumed, because the fire of God fell on Him on the cross.
Either the the sacrifice is burned up or the sinner gets burned up! Therefore when we come to God we must always make sure we do not come with un-confessed sin, but if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9. This is part of the purifying process for believers that allows the judgement of God to fall on our sins, but not on us. However if we persist in un-repentent sin we are in danger of the fire (judgement)of God falling on us. Heb. 10:26-31

So I think that the baptism of fire applies to judgement, ultimately in the final judgement of all sin, but ALSO to the ongoing purifying of believers. When the refiners fire purifies the son's of Levi (Malachi 3:2-4) it says 'Who can endure the day of His coming? Who can stand when He appears?'. I submit that only those how call upon the name of the LORD. So this is a fire of judgement that will cleanse Levi (the preisthood) of all unbelievers and purge those who do trust in the LORD from all unrighteousness.

Hope this helps and adds to the discussion.


_________________
Dave

 2009/11/11 6:07Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Heydave wrote:
We need to consider that our God is a 'consuming fire' Heb. 12:28-29. That is part of His nature. it is His holiness.



Psalm 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

His makes his ministers are a flaming fire the baptism of fire to me it's purity it enables us to be Holy like he is Holy.

I can't see why you always get back to judgement I do see it mention in Malachi but I also see purity and Holiness.

Quote:

Heydave wrote:

When the refiners fire purifies the son's of Levi (Malachi 3:2-4) it says 'Who can endure the day of His coming? Who can stand when He appears?



What day of his coming are we speaking about here, the one 2009 years ago or the one to come these verses have a double meaning. In verse 1 of Malachi it speaks about sending his messenger who will prepare the way of the Lord.

Mark 1:2-3 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.


Take a look at the bits you missed out in your post.

and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

That there is the baptism of fire it's what purges us and makes us Holy.

He shall purge: meaning To free from impurities; purify, To remove (impurities and other elements) by or as if by cleansing, To rid of sin, guilt, or defilement.

That's how he makes us his flames of fire.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/11/14 19:22Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Colin wrote:

Quote:
After finishing a time of prayer and fasting God made me aware of a remainder of sin was still embedded in me call it what you want the old man or sinful nature.



I am not going to argue with your experience brother. I just have a question. Are you sure it is that you still have an old man or an old nature, or could it be that when you were born again the old Colin died and the new Colin was resurrected as a totally new creature and that you are still in the process of being changed from glory to glory and there are still unrenewed areas of your mind and battles with the flesh (We will never be perfected in these areas until Jesus returns) See Romans 12:2. Just a thought.

I don't think baptism was ever intended to accomplish death of the old man. It is symbolic of the work that has already been done in our spirit. I am not saying that God cannot or does not often accomplish works of consecration, dedication, etc. in our lives when we are baptized. I am saying that it is not the act of baptism per se that brings about rebirth. It is symbolic of the death and rebirth that has already happened. ie., baptism by water is representative of our baptism into Christ. Both could, I guess, happen simultaneously but I think that is the exception and not the rule.

There are many different baptisms in scripture, and each is unique. Most denote an complete saturation of our lives with some aspect of the Holy Spirit is seems.

Travis


_________________
Travis

 2009/11/14 23:43Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""I am not going to argue with your experience brother. I just have a question. Are you sure it is that you still have an old man or an old nature, or could it be that when you were born again the old Colin died and the new Colin was resurrected as a totally new creature and that you are still in the process of being changed from glory to glory and there are still unrenewed areas of your mind and battles with the flesh (We will never be perfected in these areas until Jesus returns) See Romans 12:2. Just a thought."""

How can we not be perfect in Spirit, since our rebirth, Christ is now our Spirit. I agree that we are not perfect in soul/mind or flesh body yet, but we are becoming perfect in our mind by the Mind of Christ that is now in us and by the Holy Spirit use of the Mind of Christ to the renewing of our mind. Flesh will be renewed on resurrection day and is now only quickened to contain the tripartate God, The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/11/16 20:50Profile





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