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To me the main thing is to be ready to face The Lord,however things play out,God has the final say,and if we aren't prepared to face a just God in judgement,then I don't care how much we think we know,we will be cast out from the presence of God for all eternity.
| 2009/11/7 22:48||Profile|
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Quote:Brother it's only pointless if your looking at the last days as in the now present tense. That would be pointless. But to prove that the bible is correct and our interpretations wrong. I put this challenge out that know one as yet has ever been able to find.
Never neglect to study things about the last days, as is the error of some who see it as pointless
Using the King James Version, find where it say there will be Seven Years of Great Tribulation. Or even the the three and a half years of tribulation and three and a half years of wrath.
In order to get this teaching you have to do a lot of wrangling with the time line of Daniel's seventy weeks and insert another idea which the person who thought up the teaching did, by publishing a bible and inserting his notes in the margin, that bible is called the Scofield Bible.
The "end" that was coming during the Apostles days refers to those seventy weeks.
| 2009/11/7 22:58|
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Often times when we study a biblical subject we often find that we might have overlooked something,rexaiming one's core beliefs can be helpful,as the Holy Ghost can reveal to us,where we might have been in error in a subject.
| 2009/11/7 23:05||Profile|
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Studying eschatology is much more than just studying the events described in Daniel, Zechariah, or Revelation. It's about understanding what God is doing in all of redemptive history. Everything from eternity past, to the present, to the future. Whatever one's theological persuasion is concerning the last days (I ascribe to the views held by preachers like Art Katz), one does need to properly understand what is happening. Eschatology rightly understood is very practical, though some, get caught up in crazy arguments about nothing practical. You'll never understand books like Ephesians unless you understand Paul's view of what God's redemptive plan for is in relation to the church. It's amazing how much time is spent studying Daniel and his cryptic references, yet very little time is given to chewing through the very dense writings of Paul in Ephesians in regard to what God has done, is doing, and will do.
| 2009/11/7 23:23||Profile|
| Re: Bible prophecy|
Hi everyone...thanks for the replies, they have been helpful...I guess I'm still having trouble with reconciling striving and trusting/resting...For a while there I used to think that I couldn't do ANYTHING except seek after God for my salvation...in fact, a few months ago I feared even going to get a haircut or baseball game with my father because I thought God would strike me down and tell me "You should have used that time to seek me and find me"...I think that type of thinking somehow caused seeds of doubt to be planted about God...I guess now I'm confused about how to live my life...I feel that anytime I'm not on my knees in prayer seeking salvation or reading the Bible or reading apologetics to get a firm grip on faith in God, then it is time being wasted...how do I reconcile seeking and striving with actually just the nuances and pleasures of living (spending time with family, friends, etc...i think maybe i have a distorted image of God perhaps
Jdl, I am so glad you have a heart that desires to seek after God. But, I think you may be suffering from a distorted view of what salvation and relationship with God is all about. It is definitely NOT about you working your way into Gods good graces or favor by what you have referred to as striving. It is also not about trusting/resting as you refer to it. Both of the things you are referring to seem to be things that you are doing in your own power. It seems almost as if you are trying to figure out how God works on some kind of academic level and then conform to that pattern. As a result you seem to be bouncing back and forth between two ditches, never finding the road. Salvation and the Christian life is not about what you can do at all.
You made an interesting statement. I feel that anytime Im not on my knees in prayer seeking salvation
then it is time wasted. And,
except seek God for my salvation
You should have used that time to seek me and find me.
God desires relationship with you, fellowship, communion. He desires to know you intimately and be known by you. The problem is that you were born into sin, and your spirit was dead in trespasses and sins, dead to God. Fellowship with God was impossible because of sin. That is why Christ died and then rose again victorious. He bore the weight of sin on the cross. He opened the way so that we can enter into relationship with God through Christ. When we are born again, the forgiveness, the atonement is applied to us, appropriated by simply putting faith in the grace of God toward us. It is a free gift, meaning that we cannot do anything to earn it. Now, we need to understand that this does not mean that we do nothing for it, it means that we cannot earn it. We have to turn from our sin and receive Christ as our savior. We have to surrender our lives to Him. But salvation is unmerited. We cannot get salvation by any merit of our own. Jesus said that if any man come after me let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. God, through the Holy Spirit, convicts us of our sinful state and we become aware that we need a savior. We respond to this call of the Holy Spirit, surrender our lives to Him, and receive His gift of salvation. I truly believe that we can have the assurance of God in our hearts that we are His Sons, that we have been born again. His Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
After this, we will begin to grow. God, in His grace and mercy, will begin to lovingly correct us with His Word and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. He will never condemn us. What you have been experiencing is condemnation, and is not a ministry of the Holy Spirit in your life. It is the enemy. The Holy Spirit will always draw you to the Lord, even when you have sinned and God is correcting that area of your life. It will always draw you to Him in true repentance and love for Him, not out of fear of some kind of punishment.
Brother, you need good discipleship. I want to encourage you to find a good church fellowship in your area. Find a place where there are mature saints who are in love with Jesus and who have a heart to win the lost and disciple and bring to maturity young Christians. Dont go to just any church that has religious observances, songs, and sermons, but find a fellowship where the body of Christ is functioning in a way that causes people to grow in zeal for God, grow in maturity, grow in the Word, and become powerful men and women of God. Find someone there that can spend some time helping you get established in your walk with God. I think this is an important step for you.
Hope this helps a little bit. God bless you Jdl.
| 2009/11/7 23:40||Profile|
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.I've been interested lately in biblical prophecy and I've been trying to do research on it
This is a good study and I hope it helps:
FOUR CATEGORIES OF PROPHECIES:
All prophecies fit into one of these four categories.
1. ABSOLUTE PROPHECIES
These are prophecies of events that will inevitably come to pass. This relates to the omnipotence of God to bring about events predetermined by Himself. The matter is completely settled and certain.
Two example would be:
- God will crush the head of Satan:
"And I WILL put enmity between thee and the women, and between thy seed and her seed, and it shall bruise thy head." Gen 3:15
- The end of of the world:
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times, the things that are not yet done, saying MY COUNSEL shall stand, and I WILL do all MY PLEASURE... I have spoken it, I WILL also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I WILL also do it." Isaiah 46:10-11
2. CONDITIONAL PROPHECIES
These are prophecies of contingent events. They relate to the freewill of men. The matter is completely open and contingent.
Two examples of this would be:
- The repentance of Judah:
"Perhaps they will hear and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent of the evil which I purposed to do unto them because of the evil of their doings." Jer 26:3
- Blessings and wrath contingent upon obedience and disobedience:
"At what instance I shall speak concering a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up and to pull down, and to destroy it; if that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instance I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; if it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them." Jer 18:7-10
These are prophecies that are predicted, based upon God's exhaustive knowledge of the past and the present. Looking at the pattern of the past and the circumstances of the present, our Infinite God is able to make accurate and detailed predictions of the future behind our own finite comprehension:
Examples of this type would be:
- The future disobedience of Israel
"For when I shall have brought them into the land which I swore unto their fathers, that flows with milk and honey; an they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouth, of their seed: I KNOW THEIR IMAGINATION which they go about, EVEN NOW, before I have brought them into the land which I swore." Deut 31:20-21
- Peters denial:
Mark 8:31-34, Peters heart was revealed that he greatly feared the cross. He rebuked Jesus for talking about crucifixion and the Lord rebuked Peter for His cowardice.
Mat 26:34, Jesus knew Peters heart had not changed. And Jesus new all the circumstances Peter would face that night, since Jesus knew the devil was orchestrating Peters circumstances (Lk. 22:31), and predicted Peters denial based upon his past pattern, present character, and present/future circumstances.
4. PARALLEL OR ANALOGOUS SCRIPTURE FULFILLMENTS
These are events found in the New Testament, which correlate with events found in the Old Testament. The scriptures used had an original meaning in the Old, yet are applicable to a situation in the New.
Examples would be:
- My Son called out of Egypt:
Hos 11:1 speaking of Israel in the Old Testament.
This is also applied to Jesus in the New Testament, Mat 2:15.
- The betrayal of a trusted friend:
Psa 41:9, David speaking of his trusted friend and counselor Ahithephel.
John 13:18, this is also applied to Jesus and his trusted friend and disciple Judas.
- The replacement of Judas, Acts 1:16:
Acts 1:20, Peter applies two Scriptures to the situation of Judas.
Ps. 69:25, talks about their habituation being desolate, but Peter modifies it so say his habituation, and let none dwell in their tents
Ps. 109:8, David curses his enemies, who treated him wickedly.
WHAT PROPHECIES DO NOT PROVE:
- That the future has already happened
- That God already lives in the future
- That God lives outside of time
- That God has determined everything
- That all events are foreknown as certain
WHAT PROPHECIES DO REVEAL:
- That the future is partly settled by God (absolute prophecies)
- That the future is partly open and contingent (conditional prophecies)
- That the future is partly predictable to the Divine Mind (extrapolative prophecies)
- That the future is repetitive and similar to the past (parallel or analogous prophecies)
| 2009/11/8 2:27|
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WHAT PROPHECIES DO NOT PROVE:...
- That all events are foreknown as certain
Jesse, you need to take your heretical and damnable views of God elsewhere. Open theism is nothing short of blasphemy and is in direct contradiction to the whole counsel of God. Stop trying to deceive people on matters in which you understand nothing about, especially young Christians!
"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me,
[u]Declaring the end from the beginning[/u], And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ' My purpose will be established, And [u]I will accomplish all My good pleasure'[/u]; [/b]
Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. [u]Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.[/u]
" [u]Listen to Me, you stubborn-minded, Who are far from righteousness. [/u] [b](i.e. Jesse Morrell)[/b]
"I bring near My righteousness, it is not far off; And My salvation will not delay. And [u]I will grant salvation in Zion, And My glory for Israel. [/u]
| 2009/11/8 9:25||Profile|
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Hi everyone...thank you all for the replies...I guess I'll explain myself a bit further so everyone can understand where I am...I grew up in the faith, always acknowledging God but never really living it out...about four months ago, due to some circumstances (a girl), I needed to examine myself to make sure I truly was a believer...since then I have been on a downward spiral into despair...what started off as me begging God for my salvation or assurance of it actually become me wondering if God is really even there...for the first time in my life I gazed at the stars, at my body, at this world, and asked the age old cliche questions "what am I doing here? what is all this?"
Ive been in tears a couple times at the idea that we as humans might have no eternal significance and are just randomly generated globs of flesh...thus I set out into apologetics to bolster what I grew up with and to provide a solid foundation for the Christian faith once and for all...and it completely backfired...it opened up my mind to so many different objections that I was hardly ever aware of...my mind is way too weak to have been poisoned like that...Leo, that's why I fell into tears about the whole alien thing...they were more tears of frustration because I just want the truth of Jesus to set me free and here I have all this stuff floating around in my head that I can't shake out of...I'm trying to be fully persuaded of Jesus in my intellect so that I can transfer it to my heart, but it just isn't working...Don't laugh guys, but sometimes I feel I'm even on the verge of insanity...
That's why I've been interested in prophecy...not necessarily end times prophecy, but the prophecy that has already come to pass...I guess if there's anything that can help someone believe, it just HAS to be prophecy...I mean, nothing else can explain how people are able to predict future events unless it was "thus says the Lord."
I guess with all this I'm waiting for some sort of inner light switch that will tell me "YES! NOW I am fully persuaded that this is indeed true"...I feel like until that moment comes, I have no right to live like a Christian and like there's a God who will guide me and love me...otherwise I don't think God will accept my heart if I can't get at him in my head...I'm completely lost and miserable...absolutely miserable...I NEED Jesus to be real...I have never been so drenched in sin as I have been before...so yeah, that's pretty much it in a nutshell...
| 2009/11/8 10:27||Profile|
| Re: |
Quote:There are no cryptic messages in Daniel. It's these last day guys out there the likes of, Jefferies, Van Impe, Lindsey that have made the whole world of eschatology difficult. They exclude Jesus Christ and everyone's minds are on an Anti Christ when all prophecies point to Jesus Christ. The whole purpose of the prophecies is to show when the Messiah would come to redeem His people and to set up an everlasting kingdom which will never end. All this extra information about the "RFID" chips, the Mount of Olives splitting and the heavens burning up with fervent heat are not rightly dividing the scriptures.
It's amazing how much time is spent studying Daniel and his cryptic references
Prophecy is about Christ and His Kingdom.
But your not alone Jimmy, I have heard others give similar reasoning to opt out in finding that verse. But I am amazed though that a mi-nute few will want to know to see what they have always believed to be true, only to find out they are in error. Maybe it's something that is in the mind that says, "I don't want to know". There are believers that don't want to know. They would rather continue believing something and teach to others what is not there.
You have good stuff to share, love reading them.
| 2009/11/8 13:56|
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But your not alone Jimmy, I have heard others give similar reasoning to opt out in finding that verse.
It's not so much as "opting out" or shruging such a thing off, rather, there are simply some areas when it comes to handling the Scriptures that I am more confident in my understanding. Daniel 9 and other such chapters isn't such an area, and as much as I have studied it, it's not something I'm willing to say one way or another on.
I'm definitely pre-millennial and post-tribulational in my theology. That much I am very certain on, and have been for some time. However, I'm definitely not a dispensationalist, and don't much care for the Scofield Refrence Bible, Jack Van Impee, Hal Lindsey, or any other popular name when it comes to these things. Those guys are theological light weights and pop-theologians at best. They sell plenty of books and get on TV, but their understanding of the word of God is horrible, not to mention their willingness to change their theology for the latest technological or political advance.
Like I previously said, I'm much more in debt to folks like Art Katz, Reggie Kelly, David Baron, Adolph Saphir, William Mounce, John Bright, and George Ladd in my understanding of prophecy. Walter Kaiser, Jr. has also been of great insight lately to me, especially in regard to his understanding of the "word of promise" in regard to theology of the covenant seed as demonstrated in the book of Genesis, and his demonstration of a strong continuity existing between testaments, which entirely destroys a dispensational understanding of the Scriptures.
I was once a reluctant pre-millennialist with a-mellennial leanings prior to chewing slowly through many of these guys and their works. Now I hold with great certainty the positions I do. I'm still growing in my understanding and study of the Scriptures, and always welcome fresh insights into these matters. I cannot explain everything, and I still have many questions to ask, and hold some positions with a sense that there is uncomfortable tension between some of the finer points of what I adhere to now. But, that's where I leave room for God :-)
| 2009/11/8 14:55||Profile|