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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Difference Between Holiness and Legalism ?

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 Re:

Legalism is when you teach the commandments of men as if they were the commandments of God.

Holiness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.

 2009/11/6 23:04
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Holiness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.



This sounds good on the surface, and many might be tempted to agree with it. But in actuality, this statement is 100% false. Holiness is not found in keeping the commandments of God. One keeps the commandments of God because one "is" holy, as God "is" holy. There is a big difference here.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 23:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Holiness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.

Hogwash

 2009/11/6 23:10









 Re:

To be "holy" is to be "morally blameless". If you break the commandments of the Lord, you are not morally blameless and are therefore not holy.

If you keep the commandments of the Lord, you are blameless and are consequently holy.

You don't keep the commandments because you are holy, you are holy because you keep the commandments. That is because you cannot be "morally blameless" unless you are FIRST keeping the commandments.

- To be holy is to be morally blameless
- A man is morally blameless if he keeps the commandments
- Therefore, a man is holy if he keeps the commandments.

 2009/11/6 23:29
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

To further elaborate on my last post. If one defines "holiness" as keeping the commandments of God, one shows they seriously misunderstand what holiness is. Why? Because such a definition does not start with God. If holiness is to be understood, it must be understood in relation to how God "is" holy. Is God holy because God obeys Himself and loves Himself? Obviously not.

The issue of holiness is the issue of "otherness." God is "entirely other" as Art Katz was fond of saying. And it is the essence of this "otherness" that makes God holy. It's something God is in and of Himself. We are speaking something about his "ontological" being. Holiness is the issue of God's very nature. It's "what" He is. And as a result of God being "holy," God acts out that holiness. A. W. Tozer was right to pin-point holiness as the chief characteristic of God out of which all other characteristics flowed.

And it is from this that we must understand personal holiness. Unless we understand personal holiness from who God is, then we are bound to enter into false notions that holiness is about keeping God's commandments. A performance based understanding of holiness is not in keeping with Scripture. We are called to "be holy as I am holy." Thus, since God by nature is holy other, we too are likewise called to be by nature, holy other. And we can only receive such when we have undergone this inward change of nature, whereby God makes us holy by means of the grace given to us through the new birth. In this, we "become" holy and other.

You see, when we were justified by God, we were sanctified and "set apart" from the rest of the sinful race of Adam. Instead of being men who were dead, we were set apart as men who were made alive. Instead of being enslaved to this fallen demonic world, we were raised up with Jesus Christ and made to sit in heavenly places with Him through the spiritual union we have in Him. These acts of God towards us have "made" us holy.

As a result of being made holy by the Lord, we act as the Lord acts. The Lord is holy, therefore, everything He does is in keeping with who He is by nature. Likewise, we have been made holy, therefore, everything we are to do ought to likewise be in keeping with who we have been made by nature. We are not holy because of what we do, rather, we are holy because of who we are. And that holiness of character will ultimately manifest itself in our very conduct, as we joyfully love God, and keep His commandments. We are not doing these things to become holy, rather we do these things because we are holy.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 23:30Profile









 Re:

God is morally blameless because He always does what He knows is right. The Divine Will always obeys the Divine Conscience. God said, "man has become as one of us, to know good and evil" so God must have a conscience, He knows what is right and what is wrong. The Lord is good and perfect in all His ways, which means there must be some standard of goodness God obeys, which is His own conscience - He is a law unto Himself. "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" presupposes that there is a standard of rightness for God to keep. That standarded is His own Divine Mind or Divine Conscience.

If we obey the law of God, as revealed to us through our conscience, then we are "holy, as God is holy". We cannot be holy in the same degree that God is holy, because He has more knowledge than we do. But we can be holy in the same way that God is holy, we can always do what we know is right.

Holiness is the opposite of sin. Sin is the free choice to do what you know is wrong. Therefore holiness is the free choice to do what you know is right.

 2009/11/6 23:34
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

...which means there must be some standard of goodness God obeys...



The standard God keeps is simply walking out his character and doing what comes naturally to Him. He has no "standard of goodness" that he "obeys."

Jesse, please repent of such heresy.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 23:39Profile









 Re:

Moral character is determined by confirmity or disformity to moral law. If there is no moral law for God to obey, then God cannot have moral character. But there is no moral law outside of God, since nothing is coeternal with God. Therefore the moral law that God obeys must be a part of Himself. It is His Divine Mind. The moral aspect of His intelligence would be known as His Divine Conscience. From all of eternity, the Will of God has obeyed the Intelligence of God. Proverbs tells us that Wisdom was with Him in the beginning.

Moral law is not some artbitrary invention of His. The moral law is a part of His very NATURE. Just as Gentiles do by NATURE the things contained in the law, their conscience.... So part of God's nature is His conscience. The nature of our personality is intelligence, emotions, and free will. Part of intelligence is conscience. Part of God's nature is conscience. Therefore moral law is part of God's nature, not some creation of His. Your nature is your constitution, your make up.

 2009/11/6 23:44
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Moral character is determined by confirmity or disformity to moral law. If there is no moral law for God to obey, then God cannot have moral character.



God "gave" law, law was not "given" to God. The law God created and gave issues out of who God is. God is not subjected to any law. He simply does what God does out of who He is by NATURE.

For example, in Hebrews we read about how God "took an oath" in order to provide us assurance that what He said would indeed come to pass. And we have assurance, because it is "impossible" for God to lie. Why? Because lying is not in keeping with who God is by nature. God is not a liar, therefore, God does not lie. Therefore, if God takes an oath and promises to do something, we can be absolutely sure God will do it. Why? Because God is going to obey some sort of law? Nonsense. God is going to do it because God IS faithful, and will do what He says He will do. Not out of some sense of "moral obligation." God is not obliged to do anything other than be Himself.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 23:52Profile









 Re:

God did not create moral law, God revealed moral law. God revealed to us part of His own nature, that is, his conscience, knowledge, and wisdom.

If moral law was created, how can you explain how there was sin before the law came, since sin is transgression of the law?

“(For until the law sin was in the world . . .”

The Law of Moses did not originate right and wrong. Rather, it declared right and wrong, since sin existed before the law was given. The law reveals what sin is, to point it out.

“Was then that which is good [the law] made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working [spiritual] death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.” Rom. 7:13

“I had not known sin, but by the law . . .” Rom. 7:7

 2009/11/6 23:56





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