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 Re: correction

by tjservant on 2009/11/6 11:45:59

Quote:
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Some accuse Calvinism also, of at least the odor of it.
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Hello Brother Tom

I believe you meant to say Arminianism.


My bad TJ. thanks for the clarify.
tom.

 2009/11/6 18:26
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

The only benefit I see in him sticking around is that his heretical views make it easier to demonstrate from the Scriptures what Biblical Christianity is when compared to the dark teachings of these demonic doctrines. Personally, I'd rather see him go if I had a say in the matter. But God bless the moderators in whatever they do.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 19:24Profile
alan4jc
Member



Joined: 2007/8/15
Posts: 190
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

I think Joseph, Eli or someone should have an open debate (with the scriptures open) with Jesse. What do you all think?


_________________
Alan Taylor

 2009/11/6 19:33Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I think there has been enough of that here on these forums. There is nothing to debate.


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Jimmy H

 2009/11/6 19:34Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:
The only benefit I see in him sticking around is that his heretical views make it easier to demonstrate from the Scriptures what Biblical Christianity is when compared to the dark teachings of these demonic doctrines. Personally, I'd rather see him go if I had a say in the matter. But God bless the moderators in whatever they do.



I was going to write something and then I read KingJimmy's response and he said it better then I could - so amen brother - I agree.

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2009/11/6 19:58Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

My dear brethren,

The fact that this person is Jesse Morrell or anyone else for that matter is irrelevant. Any person coming into these forums with a proselytizing agenda for one theological system or another is not allowed.

John Calvin himself would be shut down here if he tried to aggressively promote Calvinism; John Wesley would also be shut down if he tried to promote and strive for Arminianism - and the same for Charles Finney if he tried to promote Pelagianism. There is no respect of persons nor partiality for one doctrinal system or another on SermonIndex. All are free to share - and are encouraged to share the writings of Finney, Wesley, Spurgeon - but once the "sharing" becomes "promoting" (note, there is a fine line of discernment here), the person in question has failed to comply with the SermonIndex guidelines.

As many know, I have already shut down numerous moral government theology threads. You have also seen me conclude several divisive cal/arm threads with equal tenacity. Brothers, the sad thing I find in common is that all these systems are at war with one another, and the devil triumphs when brethren are divided. The Arminians blame the Calvinists for being lawless and lukewarm; the Calvinists are at war with the Arminians and Pelagians, accusing them of heresy, etc. The Wesleyian camp fires another round back with the word "antinomianism" painted on the bullet. It's endless, mindless, profitless and accomplishes absolutely nothing but the furtherance of more war.

I say, leave "trufaithsav" alone and study instead to be quiet and do your own business. I personally do not adhere to the system these guys propagate, and I know many of you reading do not either, but they are free to share their interpretations of scripture just as the reformed and free will brethren are.

Once we feel someone has crossed the "fine line" of what was already mentioned, measures will be taken accordingly.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/11/6 20:05Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Hey Paul,

Quote:
It's endless, mindless, profitless and accomplishes absolutely nothing but the furtherance of more war.



I agree with you totally on the issues of Cal/Arm and the division it causes - most times it is a useless argument instead of an edifying discussion and I won't be a part of it. I don't believe either Cal/Arm believers are heretics, except in cases where extremes are pushed resulting in certain forms of sinless perfection and/or free grace as a license to sin.

But in my opinion when talking about Moral Government theology and Open Theism I think in most cases you have crossed the line into heresy or as KingJimmy put it "demonic doctrines". It's kind of like you don't hear Wilkerson railing against Calvinist, but you do hear him rail against the prosperity gospel - one is a difference in theological opinion the other is heresy or a different gospel all together.

What are your thoughts on this - this is just my opinion, please correct me if I am wrong as I have been many times in the past.

God bless,

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2009/11/6 21:09Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

This discussion sounds alot like what Paul spoke of when he described a spiritual precept found in 1 Corinthians 11:

1Cr 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

In the above Scripture we find that "there must be also heresies among you" for the expressed purpose of God declaring "that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

This precept is found throughout Scripture.

Example...................................................................................

Num 16:1 ¶ Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took [men]:

Num 16:2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

Num 16:3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, [Ye take] too much upon you, seeing all the congregation [are] holy, every one of them, and the LORD [is] among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

Num 16:4 ¶ And when Moses heard [it], he fell upon his face:

Num 16:5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who [are] his, and [who is] holy; and will cause [him] to come near unto him: even [him] whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

Here is another example............................................................

1Ki 18:17 ¶ And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, [Art] thou he that troubleth Israel?

1Ki 18:18 And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim.

1Ki 18:19 Now therefore send, [and] gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table.

1Ki 18:20 ¶ So Ahab sent unto all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together unto mount Carmel.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

In each of these situations God made it clear who was right and who was wrong.

Likewise we find this precept found in the book of Job. We have the 3 friends of Job against the testimony of Elihu. We again are given a clear decision on who speaks from his flesh and who speaks from the Spirit of God.

If one reads the testimony of Elihu found in Chapters 32 through 37 one will find that Elihu teaches us many things about how God works to restore to man His righteousness.

My question to you all...based on Elihu's testimony...how does your doctrine line up or diverge from the truth....

Does your doctrine declare you a heretic or are you approved?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/11/6 22:45Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I have only two cents to add:

1.) When you lose the imputation of Christ's righteousness by grace alone through faith alone, you've lost the Gospel.

2.) When you lose the penal substitutionary suffering of Christ in the place of all sinners that believe on Him, you've lost the Gospel.

Put wax in your ears if someone is telling you otherwise.

 2009/11/6 22:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:
You can read why Jesse Morrell is a heretic on the blog post below. It is factual.

http://graceinthetriad.blogspot.com/2009/08/heretical-theology-of-jesse-morrell.html



How can an article be factual if it doesn't even quote from the man being accused? Why doesn't that entire article have any actual quotes from the man in question? Provide us with the so called heretical teachings by giving us quotes.

I found his response to those false accusations at: http://www.youfreeweb.com/timsauder under the title "Jesse answers questions from a Calvinist about his message and ministry"

Interestingly enough, I read this: "Josef Urban is a man who believes that Charles Finney and John Wesley are in hell right now because they were “false teachers”. He also believes that Leonard Ravenhill, Albert Barnes, and Paris Reidhead were heretics."

WOW! After reading that, I can't take any posts made by Josef Urban seriously!

 2009/11/6 23:19





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