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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The doctrine called "Lordship salvation"?

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anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re:

Well, unlike some I believe that man can believe on Christ without being regenerated.

I am not sure which passages you are referring to.

In the Old Testament God would often command men to fulfill the Law. This I believe was meant to be a school master to lead them to Christ/grace (not to say we are not to fulfill the Law yet by grace).

There may be other passages saying to repent from John the Baptist, but John did not have full revelation. As Apollus I believe had to be taught of the fullness since He only knew of the baptism of John.

There may still be other passages, yet one must understand what repentance means for it means different things in different contexts. I believe that when repentance is mentioned salvifically that it is speaking of repentance from unbelief.

The reason I say a sinner cannot repent of their sins/stop sinning is because of many reasons. One being that Paul states how we are slaves to sin before receiving a new nature. Or why would we need to be born again unless our first birth was somehow insufficient or more so needing to be put to death. There is much on the teaching of the old nature and the new. Dying with Christ to our old man and becoming a new creation all things being made new through His resurrection.

 2009/11/3 21:48Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:

anonymity wrote:
I think though that this doctrine does have to do with stop sinning. For it says that one must stop sinning or repent from sinning before they can come to Christ.



No. This is not correct. I have never heard any respected or mainstream "Lordship Salvation" teacher say this or teach this. In fact, I have never heard of anyone who supports any type of Lordship Salvation teach that you must stop sinning before you can come to Christ, but I would agree that there are extremists of every position and that you can probably find someone who teaches this. They would not be received as actually teaching "Lordship Salvation" any more than the Galatians were embracing Paul's gospel before he corrected them.

That you must repent, well, Jesus and the apostles called people to repent, but that is something different than needing to stop sinning. The call of Jesus is to come "now" and "today". Those are the Scriptural terms used in both the Old and New Testaments.

Again, not that you need to look at it, but John MacArthur's book is almost universally recognized as the defining book for the Lordship perspective and he does not teach entirely what you are saying about the Lordship perspective. You must realize that there is a great difference between requiring you to stop sinning, which is an act of the will that must result in perfection, and requiring you to repent. The word repent indicates an inward change or turning. A drowning man will turn toward the shore or the lifeguard or something that is floating. Repentance is also a turning toward something that can save.

The Lordship perspective agrees entirely with the New Testament that Jesus is Lord. The early apostles and disciples both called him Lord and recognized him not only as Savior but as Lord. That is the whole thing in a nutshell, and there you have it.

 2009/11/13 0:41Profile





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