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Discussion Forum : General Topics : PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION, REPUBLICAN HEROES AND THE GULLIBLE CHRISTIAN

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Denny
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 199
Virginia

 PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION, REPUBLICAN HEROES AND THE GULLIBLE CHRISTIAN

Quote:
(This article is from the LLM archives. As we near this coming Presidential election, I thought that it would be beneficial to publish again)



The latest news coming from Washington is that partial birth abortion "WILL BE OUTLAWED". As one who has for the last 13 years stood on the front lines in the battle for children's lives, I say, "BIG DEAL". We are a pathetic lot when we get excited over the banning of one form of execution as opposed to another. The banning of partial birth abortion will not save a single life. Not one! Large donor based "pro-life" organizations raise enormous sums of money over this non-issue because it is an easy sell to their gullible Christian donors.

Let me explain. The Church has by and large prostituted itself to anyone in public office who speaks the worn out words, "I'm pro-life." Whether or not the politician's life bears witness to this or not isn't the issue. The magic words have been spoken and the Christian community has been taken under his spell. When the magic words are spoken the brain becomes numb, thought processes become sluggish, and anger rises in the breast if anyone questions the magician's integrity. But then again, why should we expect it to be otherwise, the magic words have been uttered.

Please hear me well. A woman who is denied the joys of having her beautiful child's brains sucked out will not suddenly spin on her heels, and march out of an abortuary while saying,

"If I am denied a partial birth abortion, I guess I'll love my baby!"

or

"I have three goals in life, to run a marathon, to climb Mt. Everest and to have a partial birth abortion. My only wish is that I could have reached all of my goals."

The method of execution isn't the issue. The death of the baby is. When PBA is outlawed the same babies will still die by other standard procedures that have been and continue to be employed. The same child will die a death no less painful at the same stage of development. So what are we so excited about? After hearing the latest news from Washington, many in the Christian community are acting like a child who has been given a lifetime supply of chocolate. All giddy and excited, when the only true victory is won by those politicians who have once again pulled the wool over the eyes of their Christian supporters who are obviously "under the spell".

I picture a dog happily wagging her tail and licking the hand of her master who just drowned her puppies. She doesn't seem to realize that her welfare and that of her offspring isn't on the top of the priority list of the master. As a matter of fact, she will continue offering her devotion until the very moment she is dumped off miles from home.

Instead of licking the hand of those who only feel that some modes of death are "nicer and gentler" than others, we should demand that they immediately oppose all forms of murder without exception. When you demand a little, you get less and this is no victory for those scheduled to die, only for those who have secured another vote from the enchanted masses.

Dennis Green
Life and Liberty Ministries
[url=www.lifeandlibertyministries.com]Life and Liberty Ministries[/url]


_________________
Dennis Green

 2004/9/22 18:44Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION, REPUBLICAN HEROES AND THE GULLIBLE CHRISTIAN

Quote:
The latest news coming from Washington is that partial birth abortion "WILL BE OUTLAWED". As one who has for the last 13 years stood on the front lines in the battle for children's lives, I say, "BIG DEAL".



I agree that this ban probably won't save many lives, and even if not one single life is saved by it, that doesn't mean that nothing of value will come out of this legislation. The process of enacting this legislation has an impact that should not be overlooked. If you don't believe so, please consider the following.

According to Scott Klusendorf of [i]Stand to Reason[/i];

"Public opinion had shifted moderately in favor of the pro-life position since the issue over partial birth abortion was first raised back in 1995, the percentage of those who think abortion should be legal under any circumstances has dropped on average from 33 percent to 22 percent. The trend among women 18 and over is also encouraging. According to a 1999 study by The Center for Gender Equity, more women oppose abortion than support it. Fifty three percent now say abortion should be illegal all together or allowed only in cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. That's an eight-percent shift away from abortion rights in a poll taken a few years ago.

Why the shift? Because for the first time in 25 years, the debate is about the abortion act itself and how it affects the unborn. "When someone holds up a model of a six-month-old fetus and a pair of surgical scissors, we say 'choice' and we lose," writes feminist Naomi Wolf.

At a National Abortion Federation meeting in 1996, spokesperson Kathryn Kohlbert cautioned delegates that if the debate over partial-birth abortion is on what happens to the unborn, their side will get "creamed." She urged those attending to focus exclusively on the woman:

"If the debate is whether or not the fetus feels pain, we lose. If the debate in the public arena is what's the effect of anesthesia [on the fetus], we'll lose. If the debate is on whether or not women ought to be entitled to late abortion, we will probably lose. But if the debate is on the circumstances of individual women, and [how] the government shouldn't be making those decisions, then I think we can win these fights."

The crucial point here is this: The partial-birth debate damaged the pro-abortion side because it focused on what abortion does to the unborn. Pro-lifers did two things right. First, we forced abortion advocates to defend the indefensible. Second, we marshaled factual evidence to show that our opponents were lying. Again, that's progress by any measure."

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2004/9/23 0:24Profile
Denny
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 199
Virginia

 Re:

PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION BAN - THE BETRAYAL IS NOW COMPLETE

By David Brownlow
May 9, 2003
NewsWithViews.com


A politician would have a hard time finding a more loyal special interest group than with those of us who oppose the legalized child killing industry. For the last thirty years of the war on the unborn, we have worked tirelessly to elect pro-life, mostly Republican, politicians.

Our loyalty was so strong that even though the Republicans failed to deliver us a single pro-life victory, we continued to send them back to Washington year after year. For thirty years, we trusted the Republicans when they told us to be patient, because they had a plan and a party platform that said abortion was wrong.

We now know that everything they told us was a complete pack of lies.

We know that because the Senate has finally passed the long awaited "Partial Birth Abortion Ban," Senate Bill S.3. Rather than being a useful tool in the fight to stop a barbaric and indefensible method of child killing, S.3 reads more like an instruction manual for abortionists.

In what can only be described as the mildest abortion restrictions that one could possibly put into words, Sec.1531 instructs the "doctor" to make sure and kill the child before "in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother". Or "in the case of breech presentation", make sure the child is killed before "any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother". (Actual text of SB S.3 in quotes)

With toothless restrictions like that, it is highly unlikely that even a single life will be saved. The only thing this will do is to make sure all the children are killed before the "entire fetal head" or the "fetal trunk past the navel" is showing. We waited thirty years for this?

Excuse me for shouting, but IF THE HEAD IS ALMOST OUT OF THE MOTHER, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO KILL THE KID? Do we hate children so much that we cannot wait 10 more seconds for the child to be born? 42,000,000 children killed since 1973 and this is the best they could come up with. What kind of people have we been putting into office?

If Senate Bill S.3 was just plain bad legislation, we could almost forgive the politicians for their incompetence. But believe it or not, this bill gets even worse. It gets a lot worse.

Not content to just write a watered down, sorry excuse for an abortion ban, the Senate goes on in Sec. 4, to let us all know "The Sense on the Senate Concerning Roe. v. Wade". I am not sure what kind of sense these people have, but we have definitely found out what we get for thirty years of loyalty. The 48 Republican Senators who voted to approve S.3, pledged that,

"the decision of the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade [410 U.S. 113 (1973)] was appropriate and secures an important constitutional right; and such decision should not be overturned".
You need to read that again. I've read it about 20 times and it still hurts to look at it.

Please understand that it was not just a few renegade Senators who voted for this. It was 48 Republican Senators, including every one of them who ever told us they were pro-life, who put their name on a bill that says; Roe v. Wade was "appropriate." This is a clear, unambiguous reaffirmation of the illegal Supreme Court decision that started this whole mess back in 1973. If I had not read it for myself I would not believe it.

The extent of their betrayal is absolutely breath taking!

So now we know why the Republicans have gone thirty years without a single pro-life victory. These guys are not even pro-life! We have been fooling ourselves that somehow, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the years of partisan efforts were getting us closer to ending legalized abortion in America. But if the "sense" of the Senate is any indication, we have not even started the fight. We can now only hope that the House has enough sense to put S.3 out of it's misery.

A decades old policy of voting for the lesser of two evils has left us with a Republican Party that is a mere hollowed-out shell of its former self, broken beyond any hope of repair. The only way we are ever going to win this fight is by putting men and women of integrity into office who will not bow to the political pressures.

Clearly, the team we have in there now is not up to the task.


_________________
Dennis Green

 2004/9/24 15:11Profile
mloaks
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA

 Re:

Not to hijack the thread, but alot of us independants could see the GOP play you anti-abortionists like an acordian. And you are getting worked the same way now regarding church and state seperation...

Alot of us who are more independant, both politically and in our spiritual life, are still, still, waiting for a good scriptural, common-sense argument to make us take up arms with you against abortion. Come on, convict us spiritually!
As Americans, we tolerate the status quo on abortion as beleivers because you simply cannot make us see the spiritual wisdom and truth of your point. Partial birth enemies hence make the mistake you cite; ugly pictures of fetuses wont work, talking about a 'beautiful child' wont work, and even saying it is murder wont work. To commit murder, you must kill a human alive with a soul, and you all's arguments rarely convince us that the fetus is alive with a soul.
It is as silly as asking when one was born again, like it was a graduation or something. The point is if you know when one understood what Jesus told Nicodemus, thru the quickening of the Holy Spirit, and lived the new life thru that wisdom and power.
We often suspect that what you all really hate is the sinful sexual 'freedom' that causes most abortions, and you are doing an end-run around the murder take. And again, we smell the GOP in this, also. Your movement strikes alot of us as a Jim and Tammi Faye Bakker-type of faith, or like Swaggerty's latest foibles... 'Swift Boat Vets for Abstinance'...
We arent asking y'all to get 'hip', or update your message; we need to be convicted in our souls that abortion is murder and against the Word and the Truth, and that we can live per His will by changing US law.
But you are right, the GOP (nor any party) will not get you there; too many of those people could give a rat's a$& about abortion unless their daughter needs one.
Your movement would be better served teaching young men to keep their insemenators in their pants per Christ's admonition to abstain from adultery and fornication. That is how I am trying to raise my two sons. And God give me the strength to fight that battle, sinful man that I am...

 2004/10/6 10:03Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

You know not what spirit you are of!


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/10/6 10:18Profile
mloaks
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA

 Re:

And you just lent creedance to some of my points.
I am not against you all, I beleive abortion is wrong.
But you cannot minister to me, or alot of people. But you pander to the GOP, like the writer stated. And the gOP loves it when y'all make judgement. Your way, or the highway (to hell)... They tell you just what you want to hear.

 2004/10/6 10:23Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Sir,
When a man or a woman is filled with the Holy Spirit of God HOLINESS is a natural outgrowth. I do not need to see the gruesome images of decapitated, limbless, candy-apple babies to know that abortion (in all of its forms) is evil. I do not need a scripture that says, "Thou shalt not have an abortion at any time or under any circumstances." I do not need to see the undeniable, proven fact that a fetus is just what the word mean - "Little Child". These things have only further proved to me what the Holy Spirit already inscribed upon my heart. Friend, when you have the Holy Spirit inside of you, you will know. You do not need any man to create an arguement that will "hit you just right". The Spirit of God must reveal this truth to you. You also should be conscious of the fact that there are those who frequent this website (I presume), females in particular, who are immature and whom your comment about keeping certain things in pants may have offended. Be careful my friend, we cannot cause anyone to stumble.
Bless you,

Jeff


_________________
Jeff

 2004/10/6 10:25Profile
mloaks
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA

 Re:

Thanks for your response.
I'll stay off this thread, agree that I could cause stumbling....
I am not looking to be hit 'just right', just with spiritual truth. I also do not need the pictures, etc. I know abortion is wrong. But I do not beleive hating abortion is a litmus test for being redeemed or justified or wise or... saved and born-again.
I am saying the movement is not convincing many Christians that you all 'have the Holy Spirit inside of you, you will know.' And your summation that therefore those Christians are deceived or false is presumptuous and comes across as styled after the Pharisees.
Sorry about the spelling...

 2004/10/6 10:41Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
And you just lent creedance to some of my points.



The weight of your behavior is upon your own head. Your talk is riddled with ASTORGOS- that is, a lack of natural familial love. We get our word stork from storgos and it is one of the Greek words used in the New Testament for love (agape, phileo, etc.). A-STORGOS is "To be without natural affection." It is to lack the love that a parent would have for their siblings.

ASTORGOS:

without natural affection, unsociable (Rom 1:31 marg.), inhuman (2Ti. 3:3 RSV), unloving (2Ti. 3:3 NKJV)

It is only used in the negative and the passages are:

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful (Romans 1:31)

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good (II Tomothy 3:3)

THIS DAY and many days previous have these passages been fulfilled in your ears. ABORTION is the apex of the truth of this passage. No greater absence of familial love can be imagined than this. It is essentially sacrifical worship to the god of Molech and is a grevious sin as was that of the people who would pass their children through the fire. In reality it is the worship of Baal, Asteroth, and Molech. Baal (bacause the children are an expense to raise), asteroth (because they sought forbidden experience and now want to cover it up), and Molech (because having too many children is frowned upon in our day and hinders a persons social ascendancy).

REPENT of these things! It is the very wickedness that is near to leveling anathema on our heads.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/10/6 10:42Profile
mloaks
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA

 Re:

Mr Wurtz,
Now, that's more like it! :-)

That response is what is needed. Your first reply to me was counterproductive...

Thanks for that last reply! I'll be praying over it...
mike

 2004/10/6 10:47Profile





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