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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Swine Flu H1N1 should you get it done??

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 Re:

Oh don't misunderstand my plight Brother and Sisters, it's not that it's a sin, no not at all. What my concern is is the drug itself. I am not opposed to taking medications I take them myself, my concern is this particular drug. I just have a bad feeling about it. I hope what I am sensing is from the LORD, but sometimes our own discernment can be our own and not the LORD because of the love we have for our kin.

My Mother is not the type of woman that likes being told what to do, she had all that from my father, so I don't remind of her of that by telling her what to do, she'll only clam up. For her, I only pray that God will speak to her as she is a called out one. But if not, then God must be honoured for His wisdom in this situation.

After an evening of prayer and reflection, I have a settled peace about the matter. And thank you all for your love and support, it's good to know that we can come here and share and be a family.

Mary Jane, that was a very good post. I agree with you and do the same too and also the other posters.

 2009/10/28 11:25
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi IWantAnguish...

Quote:
Statistics show that H1N1 is around 400% less lethal than the seasonal flu.

Is that worth a taking a vaccine with mercury and squalene?


Can you provide a citation for this?

As for me, I am certainly praying that my wife and I will remain healthy. However, I see no problem with taking vaccines -- including the current swine flu vaccine. I have studied this quite a bit...and even more intensely since the last thread about the matter. I was preparing a list of the sources, facts, myths, and rumors. I still might try to get it together (but I have been a bit busy). I also have a Christian friend from college who now works as a senior scientist at a pharmaceutical company in the Research Triangle (just up the road from Krispy). He was one of the leads in the development of one of the main swine flu vaccines. He said that they are aware of the rumors about the vaccine, and are doing their best to "answer those concerns and debunk many of the misstatements." One of the claims -- that "[i]the doctors and scientists who created the vaccine have not taken it themselves[/i]" -- is simply untrue. My friend explained that every scientist on his team has taken the vaccination.

As far as many of the myths about the swine flu vaccine, the US Department of Health and Human Services actually [url=http://www.flu.gov/myths/index.html]set up a website[/url] to address many of the rumors. The CDC [url=http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal.htm]also opened up a website[/url] to answer concerns, rumors and misconceptions about Thimerosol (although this website was opened much earlier because this was used in flu vaccines for decades).

I actually work for a biotech company that designs devices for medical (mostly cancer) treatment. Part of my job is to analyze, criticize and review data that is used in academic, scientific, medical and engineering journals before they are published. These are peer reviewed research articles, which are not biased one way or the other. As a result, they include the evidence and a great amount of scrutiny. As part of my job, I have access to most articles included on PubMed and other medical research databases. Thus far, I haven't found a single article that validates many of the rumors included in anti-vaccination articles. Of course, I am still looking. However, the vast plethora of articles on vaccinations (including influenza and H1N1 vaccinations) conclude that these vaccinations are safe and effective.

I would urge those who are hesitant toward vaccinations to [u]always[/u] remain hesitant about any medical vaccination or treatment. Honest and sincere research is the key toward a greater understanding of such things. I urge individuals to NEVER take a vaccination or a treatment unless they have thoroughly reviewed it. At the same time, I would also urge believers to not be given over to rumors. There are plenty of rumors that are being uttered within the context of the discussion in many (if not most) of the anti-vaccination websites. If you are going to make a statement about such matters, it would be helpful to include a citation from where you gathered this information. A good citation is NOT an article in an anti-vaccination website. Rather, it would be much better to gather the source. Thus, a good article would be the credible, peer-reviewed sources from which the anti-vaccination articles based its conclusions.

Anyway, I might still gather some information together and include it here. Unfortunately, I cannot provide any of the articles from the medical database (contained at PubMed, etc...) since they must be personally purchased (and they are extremely expensive). I do urge anyone else who has a research-level PubMed account to search through these articles for themselves.

I will say this too. The swine flu vaccination is no more dangerous than the flu vaccination taken by millions of individuals (and more than a billion people) last year. The oft-criticized preservatives are included in several major vaccinations. The swine flu vaccination is comprised of exactly the same makeup of every flu vaccination for over a decade, with the exception of the strain of flu that is targeted. Many researchers have examined the accusation that vaccinations containing Thimerosal are linked to autism. So far, every major attempt to ascertain just a link literally could find no valid link whatsoever. While reported diagnoses of autism have increased dramatically since 1990, the cause for this has yet to be ascertained (including the possibility of previous underreporting). In addition, this preservative has been used in many other vaccinations (and even even anti-venoms) too.

Like many other believers, I feel that vaccinations are perfectly acceptable measures of preventive medicine. They have effectively eliminated many dreadful diseases from the nations where vaccinations are readily available (or even mandatory). Polio, smallpox, diphtheria and many others have been all but eradicated by vaccinations. There is a serious concern that H1N1 could mutate slightly and become just as dangerous as the 1918 flu pandemic that killed 50 Million people on Earth and effected 500 Million people. A third of the people living on Earth at the time contracted the flu...and one out of every 10 who contracted it died. This vaccine has been shown to be effective against the swine flu.

It is up to the person regarding whether or not they want to accept the vaccination. I suggest that one would not only access the supposed risk of taking the vaccination, but also the risk of not taking it as well. Of course, as children of God, we should remain in prayer as well. We should not fear the "terror by night" (Psalm 91:5). At the same time, I think that we should be good stewards of this earthly Temple of the Holy Spirit.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/28 12:49Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
I would urge those who are hesitant toward vaccinations to always remain hesitant about any medical vaccination or treatment. Honest and sincere research is the key toward a greater understanding of such things. I urge individuals to NEVER take a vaccination or a treatment unless they have thoroughly reviewed it. At the same time, I would also urge believers to not be given over to rumors.


Good advice. Thank you, Chris.

 2009/10/28 12:59Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

During a typical year in the United States, 30,000 to 50,000 persons die as a result of (seasonal)influenza viral infection. Frequently cited numbers are 20,000 deaths each year, and 37,000 annual deaths. About 5-10% of hospitalizations for influenza lead to fatal outcome in adults.

[url=http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/]Stats for H1N1[/url]

H1N1 is a wussy excuse for a pandemic.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/10/28 13:04Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
My Mother is not the type of woman that likes being told what to do,



uh,huh....she is not the only mom like that on this globe...you can't tell those kind of folks [i]anything[/i]. Once their mind is made up, you can't change it - usually. You can try, but I would not sweat it. Do as you please but know that some old folks get well set in their ways. And I would suppose some folks would say the same about me.. :-( Now THAT is unsettling. :-?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/10/28 13:15Profile
nearthecross
Member



Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74


 Re:

An excerpt from:
http://swineflu.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/27/Obama-Declares-Swine-Flu-Emergency.aspx



[b]One Thousand Deaths from Swine Flu?![/b]

Oh really?

Well I am from Chicago and I want to see the evidence. If you read Obama's declaration, you will find a complete absence of documentation to support his assertion that 1000 have died from H1N1 in the US. Nada, nothing no links, no references anywhere in the document to back up his assertion.

In fact, if you go to the definitive collector and holder of the US data, you will find that there is NO evidence to back this claim.

The CDC's own web site readily admits that since August 30, 2009 they are no longer testing for H1N1. They don't even recommend it any more. They are substituting a clinical definition for blood testing that will positively confirm that the "suspected" cases of H1N1 influenza are actually H1N1 influenza.

They've even coined what appears to be a whole new term: "ILI," which stands for "influenza-like illness."

The CDC H1N1 flu site reads:

"... tracking of 2009 H1N1 hospitalizations and deaths will not be the same after August 30, 2009.

In an effort to add additional structure to the national 2009 H1N1 reporting, new case definitions for influenza-associated hospitalizations and deaths were implemented on August 30, 2009.

The new definitions allow states to report to CDC hospitalizations and deaths (either confirmed OR probable) resulting from all types of influenza, not just those from 2009 H1N1 flu.

1. Influenza and pneumonia syndrome hospitalizations and deaths may be an overestimate of actual number of flu-related hospitalizations and deaths, but CDC believes influenza and pneumonia syndromic reports are likely to be a more sensitive measure of flu-associated hospitalizations and deaths than laboratory confirmed reports during this pandemic.

However, the syndromic reports of all hospitalizations and deaths recorded as either influenza or pneumonia will mean that the case counts are less specific than before and will include cases that are not related to influenza infection."

Folks, make no mistake about it. Health officials and media WILL trumpet these numbers as being H1N1 "swine flu deaths" even though, as you can CLEARLY read on the CDC's site, they admit that they will now include hospitalizations and deaths that are not even RELATED to the common influenza infection, let alone H1N1.

Well, no wonder the flu appears to be spreading when they are now including mere "symptoms of flu," which the CBS investigation found were NOT EVEN INFLUENZA RELATED in the overwhelming majority of cases!

 2009/10/28 14:09Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi IWantAnguish...

Quote:
H1N1 is a wussy excuse for a pandemic.


As with any viral outbreak, the concern is that it can turn into a pandemic. The 1918 flu pandemic started slowly with a similar strain of H1N1, but eventually killed 50 Million people out of the 500 Million who became infected within two years. The vaccine is a precaution to prevent a more potent mutation.

Regardless, the swine flu vaccine is proven in lab tests to protect individuals from the flu. According to scientists at the CDC, FDA, US Department of Health and the pharmaceutical companies, this isn't even open to debate. Someone could try and debate the possible side effects, but it is substantiated through tests and trials that the swine flu vaccine is highly effective as a preventive medicine. The number of deaths that you cited could probably be lessened if individuals actually took a seasonal flu vaccine to begin with.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/28 14:18Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

I found the following rebuttal to Mercola by Joseph Albietz.
[url=http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116]http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116[/url]

Personally I find it difficult to make a reasoned decision regarding this. I just don't feel I am knowledgeable enough.

What my heart greatly desires is to see the Lord's name glorified.

I think of Psalm 91. "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." And then it goes on to show the security of those who abide in that Secret Place. NO evil of any kind will befall them (Ps. 91.10).

It seems that we as a people have not come to that yet. We try to make the same reasoned decision that even unbelievers are trying to make.

Does not God have something higher for us? I know... there are those who have tried to fulfill scriptures like this in their own strength and presumption, withholding medication from a child... and then the child dies...

And so what does it take for the truth in this psalm to become our experience?

...That's what I'm asking, seeking, knocking on the Lord's door about.

Days are at hand when we are going to need this reality, days when vaccines and medications simply are not going to be an option.


_________________
Allan Halton

 2009/10/28 14:30Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Do you trust the CDC, FDA, US Department of Health, and the giant pharmaceutical companies?

Do you know how much profit these companies are making off of this mass vaccination?


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2009/10/28 14:31Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi nearthecross...

I would warn you that Dr. Mercola (the owner and business owner of the website that you linked and cited) is NOT an MD (he is an DO). He has been under investigation in the past for marketing drugs that were not approved by the FDA and embraces (and even markets) medical practices that are not shown to hold much if any medical weight, (such as Eastern herbal and alternative medical procedures [such as acupuncture]). He is a proponent of a wide array of controversial techniques (such as the controversial "Emotional Freedom Technique" that delves into "energy fields" and Chinese acupuncture techniques).

I suggest that you consider these things when weighing the opinion of the source.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/28 14:36Profile





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