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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Was the Apostle Paul A Hypocrite?

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Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

KingJimmy,

Quote:
Rather, I see it different. Paul's confession to being the chief of sinners is not simply a statement about his past, nor is he admitting to regularly sinning in his life. Rather, his confession to being the chief of sinners is made by a man whose eyes have seen the Lord, and based on this revelation, has come to understand that he is the greatest sinner he knows. Indeed, for anybody who has truly had a revelation of the holiness of God, one cannot help but see the monster they actually are.



In these words, you have captured the essence of true repentance. Thank you.

 2009/10/26 19:48Profile









 Re:

Paul was converted to Christ and his character and conduct changed, so that he was living a holy life, but he was still the chief of sinners because of the things he has done in the past. Out of all the sinners that Jesus Christ has saved, Paul said that he is the worst sinner Jesus has saved.

" [u]take the whole of the apostle’s conduct, previously to his conversion[/u], into consideration, and was there a greater sinner converted to God from the incarnation to his own time? Not one; he was the chief; and, [u]keeping his blasphemy, persecution, and contumely in view[/u], he asserts: Of all that the Lord Jesus came into the world to save, and of all that he had saved to that time, I am chief." Adam Clarke

Paul was saying "I am the chief of sinners because of my previous life".

A person could say, "I am the richest man in the world, because of the business I used to have." Or they could say, "I am the most prolific writer in the world, because of the things I have written in the past." Likewise Paul can say, "I am the chief of sinners, because of my previous way of life."

Paul was not a normal sinner. Paul was worse. Paul went around and persecuted the Church.

 2009/10/26 19:57
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
Indeed, for anybody who has truly had a revelation of the holiness of God, one cannot help but see the monster they actually are.



This insight should be considered a pre-requisite for any person who feels called to offer spiritual oversight for others. Without this vital dissolusionment of self-righteousness, it is nigh impossible to preach the Gospel with urgency, and more likely that all we can offer is legalism or some other form of spiritual abuse.

Consider how the 'spiritual' man views his own heart with trepidation, even when the faults of another is in plain view.

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." Gal. 6:1

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2009/10/26 19:58Profile









 Re:

If Paul was still living a sinful life (or was a hypocrite) how can we explain these passages?

Acts 24:16

Acts 23:1

1 Cor. 11:1

If Paul was not saying that he was living a holy life, what was he saying? If these passages do not teach that Paul was living a life with victory over sin, then no language possibly could! It could not be any more explicitly taught than that!

 2009/10/26 20:00
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

So truefaithsav, Paul declares here by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that he is the chief of sinners. Period. If we are simply going by his past, did he really outsin his contemporaries? What about the future anti-Christ? Was Paul a greater sinner than what the anti-Christ will be?

If you read my little essay, you will see how your view simply does not measure up with the essence of what Paul was saying. In comparison to other historical persons that have come on the scene, or will come on the scene, Paul was a pretty insignificant sinner in the history of sinners. But Paul had a revelation of just what a monster his sins had made him.

But because of your perverted understanding of these things, and thus, your own self before God, you'll never see these things. So long as you walk according to your present mindset, you are in an odd predicament, because you are blind, yet you say you see.

*edit*

Let me say by the word of the Lord that you will not truly see until you can say that you are the greatest sinner you know. Until a man can say that, his understanding is darkened.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/10/26 20:06Profile
Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

truefaithsav wrote:
If Paul was still living a sinful life (or was a hypocrite) how can we explain these passages?

Acts 24:16

Acts 23:1

1 Cor. 11:1

If Paul was not saying that he was living a holy life, what was he saying? If these passages do not teach that Paul was living a life with victory over sin, then no language possibly could! It could not be any more explicitly taught than that!



He was saying that he was following Christ as all believers do - there is no implication here that he was sinless.

He was saying that he had a clean conscience before God, which is what all believers have when they repent of their sins, knowing that Christ paid for those sins.

He was exercising himself (striving) to have a clean conscience before God, as all believers do - doesn't mean that we are sinless, just that we are striving to be sinless.

Give it up, truefaithsav, your reading of scripture is self-serving and faulty. Your problem is that you don't read scripture to learn from God - you do it to bolster your self-pride.

 2009/10/26 20:10Profile









 Re:

You cannot serve two masters. Paul was not serving sin. Paul said in Romans 6 that he was "free from sin".

Stop reading the Bible to find justification for having sin in your life. As George Fox used to say, that is a Holy book written by holy men, stop using it to excuse your unholiness!

 2009/10/26 20:15
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

You are right in saying that Paul was not serving sin - but that doesn't mean he was sinless, it doesn't mean he was perfect. If you will read his teachings with a mind to learn, he always said he was striving for perfection, but frustrated at his own weakness.

 2009/10/26 20:18Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

This insight should be considered a pre-requisite for any person who feels called to offer spiritual oversight for others. Without this vital dissolusionment of self-righteousness, it is nigh impossible to preach the Gospel with urgency, and more likely that all we can offer is legalism or some other form of spiritual abuse.



Amen. Until you see yourself as the chief of sinners, you can never deal in a spiritual manner with others. Even if you never sinned at all since you became a Christian, and lived the rest of your Christian existence in such a state, you must still see this truth of yourself. Otherwise, your preaching will always be violent, angry, and looking down your nose at others. "Why can't you get your act together?" will become the essence of your preaching, as you lash sinners and saints alike with words that sound like clanging brass. Such a man cannot be a broken vessel in the hands of the Potter.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/10/26 20:19Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

truefaithsav wrote:
You cannot serve two masters. Paul was not serving sin. Paul said in Romans 6 that he was "free from sin".

Stop reading the Bible to find justification for having sin in your life. As George Fox used to say, that is a Holy book written by holy men, stop using it to excuse your unholiness!



truefauthsav,

Can you not see that when you claim that you live a holy, sinless life before God while still in the flesh, you are actually claiming to be like God?

Repent of your sin, prideful one.

 2009/10/26 20:20Profile





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