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 Re:

"I have a question for truefaithsav.

Are you just doing a "cut and paste" of Jesse Morrell's teachings? It seems identical."sscott

truefaithsav, this was a question posed to you on another thread with Paul Washer's sermon that you seemed to have ignored. I'm also interested in knowing about the similarities in style and content. Also, there is much more on that thread that was missed as well.

 2009/10/22 13:45
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3703
Ca.

 Re:

How do we reconcile these scriptures with 1 John 1


1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

"Born of God", This is Godly Father spiritual Birth in spirit. The Spirit of Christ in the believer, the old father the devil is out and no longer has jurisdiction over the believer.

Romans 8:9-14 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Now if any man sin, very important, "Any Man Sin"
We have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 2:1-6 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if (((((any man sin,))))) we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Then if, "any man sin", what are we to do?

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Is this not keeping His commandments?

The Father can not be faithful to those that don't confess their sins, and they are not following His commandment, so we can be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

We are perfect in Christ and we are quickened in the flesh to contain the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit. This is how we are perfect before the Father. The Christ in us is our perfection and This is how every man is presented to the Father Perfect, "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

This is Pauls ministry, this is where we should be dwelling, In Christ, as Paul speaks 223 times, In Christ, In Christ, etc. "Perfect in Christ".

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

"Follow me as I follow Christ", Pauls declaration in all his epistles. This is why Paul was chosen on the road. That we might know the Christ that is in us as he speaks in all his epistles again and again, IN CHRIST, and Christ in you the Hope of Glory. There is none other glory.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/10/22 13:57Profile









 Re:

christinyou wrote: "Then if, "any man sin", what are we to do?"

This has been addressed by logic and tfs before and their take is that the word 'if' is a response for those who choose to do so. It doesn't say 'when' but 'if'. So this is the answer that you will most likely get from them. Thanks.

 2009/10/22 14:03
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I wonder if tfs is actually Jesse? Stranger things have happened :-D

P.S. I'm not getting involved in this, there's already PAGES of refutation to both of these gents.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/10/22 14:20Profile
Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Dear Truefaithsav,

[i]Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?[/i]

Those verses you quoted are true: that anyone who continues to sin is not of God; and anyone who is of God, being led by the Spirit, will no longer live a life of sin. No one is denying this.

However, let me ask you this - are you able to live in the flesh and be totally filled with the Spirit 24/7? If we are honest with ourselves we know that it takes effort to suppress ourselves and our selfish attitudes in order for the Spirit to take the lead in our lives. That is why we are commanded to take up our cross DAILY. As long as we are alive in the flesh, we must put to death our sinful nature every day in order to surrender ourselves to the Holy Spirit. It is not a one-time thing, but a way of life - a life of repentance and surrender to God each and every day as long as we live on this earth.

If we are born again, and we love God above all, we will choose not to sin whenever the choice presents itself. We choose not to sin so as not to grieve our God whom we love.

However, if we are sensitive to the inclinations of our own hearts, we also know that Jer 17:9 is true - that our hearts are deceitful above all things. We know that in an instant, without conscious choice or warning, our hearts can be boastful, or rise up in anger, or fill with envy, or harbor evil desires, etc. This is what Scripture warns us of in both Jer 17:9 and in 1 Jn 1:5-10.

It is only when we are vigilant and conscious of the sinfulness of our deceitful hearts that we are able to avoid sin all the more, through the work of the Spirit and for the glory of God.

 2009/10/22 14:58Profile









 Re:

"I wonder if tfs is actually Jesse? Stranger things have happened " roaringlamb

KingJimmy clued me in.... some puzzle pieces are starting to fit.

 2009/10/22 17:02
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3703
Ca.

 Re:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins , and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness .

"If, (ean):

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1437. ean
Search for G1437 in KJVSL
ean ean eh-an'
from 1487 and 302; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty:--before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-)soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, (who-)so(-ever). See 3361.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3361. me
Search for G3361 in KJVSL
mh me may
a primary particle of qualified negation (whereas 3756 expresses an absolute denial); (adverb) not, (conjunction) lest; also (as an interrogative implying a negative answer (whereas 3756 expects an affirmative one)) whether:--any but (that), X forbear, + God forbid, + lack, lest, neither, never, no (X wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without. Often used in compounds in substantially the same relations.

The "If" is not on our part, but should be if so, not If I or we, "a conditional particle; in case that, provided,".

Who convicts us of Sin, by which we will confess.

That is why the Holy Spirit is here.

This is the whole of John 14, if you finish 15, 16, and 17. The Holy Spirit becomes very clear what is His intended purpose for the believer; to convict of sin and to comfort and seal the believer in Christ Jesus our Lord and reveal the Christ that is in us.

Jesus uses the same word, (IF), aea: And ((((((if )))))))) I go and prepare a place for you , I will come again , and receive you unto myself ; Not depending on the "If", but on what He will do for and in the believer, the same "If", when we confess, by the Holy Spirit conviction and leading us to full dependence on the Cross and the Blood of Christ to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is the most beautiful command and promise the believer can have to complete the the saying:

Romans 8:1-16 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (((((For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:)))))

John 14:1-31 Let not your heart be troubled : ye believe in God , believe also in me . In my Father's house are many mansions : if it were not so, I would have told you . I go to prepare a place for you . And ((((((if )))))))) I go and prepare a place for you , I will come again , and receive you unto myself ; that where I am , there ye may be also . And whither I go ye know , and the way ye know . Thomas saith unto him , Lord , we know not whither thou goest ; and how can we know the way ? Jesus saith unto him , I am the way , the truth , and the life : no man cometh unto the Father , but by me . If ye had known me , ye should have known my Father also : and from henceforth ye know him , and have seen him . Philip saith unto him , Lord , shew us the Father , and it sufficeth us . Jesus saith unto him , Have I been so long time with you , and yet hast thou not known me , Philip ? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father ? Believest thou not that I am in the Father , and the Father in me ? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself : but the Father that dwelleth in me , he doeth the works . Believe me that I am in the Father , and the Father in me : or else believe me for the very works ' sake . Verily , verily , I say unto you , He that believeth on me , the works that I do shall he do also ; and greater works than these shall he do ; because I go unto my Father . And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name , that will I do , that the Father may be glorified in the Son . If ye shall ask any thing in my name , I will do it. If ye love me , keep my commandments . And I will pray the Father , and he shall give you another Comforter , that he may abide with you for ever ; Even the Spirit of truth ; whom the world cannot receive , because it seeth him not , neither knoweth him : but ye know him ; for he dwelleth with you , and shall be in you . I will not leave you comfortless : I will come to you . Yet a little while , and the world seeth me no more ; but ye see me : because I live , ye shall live also . At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father , and ye in me , and I in you . He that hath my commandments , and keepeth them , he it is that loveth me : and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father , and I will love him , and will manifest myself to him . Judas saith unto him , not Iscariot , Lord , how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us , and not unto the world ? Jesus answered and said unto him , If a man love me , he will keep my words : and my Father will love him , and we will come unto him , and make our abode with him . He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings : and the word which ye hear is not mine , but the Father's which sent me . These things have I spoken unto you , being yet present with you . But the Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name , he shall teach you all things , and bring all things to your remembrance , whatsoever I have said unto you . Peace I leave with you , my peace I give unto you : not as the world giveth , give I unto you . Let not your heart be troubled , neither let it be afraid . Ye have heard how I said unto you , I go away , and come again unto you . If ye loved me , ye would rejoice , because I said , I go unto the Father : for my Father is greater than I . And now I have told you before it come to pass , that , when it is come to pass , ye might believe . Hereafter I will not talk much with you : for the prince of this world cometh , and hath nothing in me . But that the world may know that I love the Father ; and as the Father gave me commandment , even so I do . Arise , let us go hence .

The If has already been accomplished, and we will be, by His faithfulness, be cleansed from all unrighteousness by the Christ that is in us and the Blood He shed to take away all our sin, In Spirit we are perfect by His Spirit that lives in us, we are being made perfect by the Holy Spirit teaching to be conformed to the image of Christ, by the Mind of Christ that is in us. We will be made perfect by the new perfect body we receive at resurrection from the grave and those that are left alive in Christ, together to go to our prepared place of our home in the Father's House.

"If", in Christ, which has already been accomplished for those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Amen. The World cannot believe, Only those the Father has given to the Son and are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/10/22 17:09Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Leo_Grace wrote:

It is only when we are vigilant and conscious of the sinfulness of our deceitful hearts that we are able to avoid sin all the more, through the work of the Spirit and for the glory of God.



What you are describing is trying to do it in your own strength. We are decieved if we can think to escape or avoid sin if sin is still in our heart.

What we need is the work of the spirit in you so that the decietful heart is total removed.

There are two works of the spirit

1.Born Again--Justification
2.Sanctification--Holiness

Ezk 36:26 [b]A new heart[/b] also will I give you, and [b]a new spirit[/b] will I put within you:

Two works of the spirits a new heart and a new spirit. This work is not done at conversion at conversion you get a new spirit, later in your walk with God there is a further work.

Think about John 20:22 and Acts 2:2 two works of the spirit. Look at how Peter describes the second work in Acts 15:8-9 how it purifies the heart.

Without the purification of the heart you will always struggle with sin and fall.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/10/22 17:34Profile









 Re:

Phillip... that's a lot to swallow but I concur with the gist of what you are saying about the word especially in the context of your quote here: And ((((((if )))))))) I go and prepare a place for you , I will come again , and receive you unto myself ; that where I am , there ye may be also.

But the 'Morells' will just refute you with something just as long and in depth. They will copy and paste you to death because they are not interested in much other than lecturing others on their theology. It's a disingenuous agenda to say the least. I guess we'll see what happens.

 2009/10/22 17:34
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Why doesn't any one want to believe they can always choose not to sin?

Why doesn't any one want to believe they can be sin free as the Bible tells us?

 2009/10/22 18:19Profile





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