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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

Or the ones hearing the Zulu, validate, as with Peter and the others in Acts 2, and understand in their own language the tongue or language of Zulu.
Only the Holy Spirit can do this and give the Body of Christ the upbuilding.

Peter did not speak in Zulu. But His speaking, by the Holy Spirit was understood by each individual in his own language.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/10/15 13:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. In this Scripture, we see that men who are saved. All men who are saved have the Holy Spirit, but that is different than when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. These men have not "baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.

Ah, but you didn't go further into the text. It says [b][color=CC0000]Acts 19:2-6 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.[/color][/b]It says that they were not believers in Jesus because Paul had to explain why they needed to believe in the "other" that should come after John. Paul didn't even ask them if they believed in Jesus he went right to the crux of the matter and wanted to know if they received His Spirit. And they said, we don't even know if there is a holy Ghost. So Paul after baptizing them in the name of Jesus, laid his hands on them so that they'd receive the holy Spirit. And when they received the holy Spirit, they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

It's clear like oil and water. That just because anyone says they are a believer doesn't mean they've got the holy Ghost. Paul clearly says here and offers the remedy for those who want to be filled with the Spirit. The devils believe too, does that make them Holy Spirit filled? God forbid, that is why this distinction is necessary and that those who teach that one receives the holy Spirit just because they say they believe is on dangerous territory and I feel sorry for those who listen to it.
Quote:
The tongues is the least of the benefits of the baptism of the Spirit.

That doesn't mean that we should belittle it. God takes great pleasure in small things. The things that we put down are the things that He lifts up.
Quote:
However, people think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one time thing.

The sad thing is many think that way. Paul tells us to be filled all the time.

 2009/10/15 14:12









 Re:

Actually this topic is a good topic to bring up, it does cause some problems but it's only because of we have believed a certain way of thinking. And you'll always meet up with resistance. Even if anyone has the slightest doubts about what they have always believed and can't find sufficient scripture to support it , this is good, for our reasoning's just might produce some results.

This tug of war between Logic and myself is good, I am not nasty and he's not nasty, so far this is a good discussion.

So there is no reason to bash anyone. But there is a scriptural logical explanation in the bible that will settle these matters. I am of the belief that everything can be solved from the bible. Many of those things require faith, and illumination from the Holy Ghost.

 2009/10/15 14:23
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
This tug of war between Logic and myself is good, I am not nasty and he's not nasty, so far this is a good discussion. So there is no reason to bash anyone. But there is a scriptural logical explanation in the bible that will settle these matters. I am of the belief that everything can be solved from the bible. Many of those things require faith, and illumination from the Holy Ghost.


Very well, DeepThinker. I have said my piece, and unless I am again vilified for it, I will remain quiet. Let us see where this discussion will lead. Thank you, by the way, for your civilized tongue.

 2009/10/15 14:34Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Or the ones hearing the Zulu, validate, as with Peter and the others in Acts 2, and understand in their own language the tongue or language of Zulu.
Only the Holy Spirit can do this and give the Body of Christ the upbuilding.

Peter did not speak in Zulu. But His speaking, by the Holy Spirit was understood by each individual in his own language.

One person who speaks in one tongue (language) can not be heard by two people of difering languages as each of their own language.

As with Peter and the others in Acts 2, each person who spoke in a tongue (a language not their own), spoke in a specific language for a specific hearer.
Peter could not have spoke in one language and be heard as two or more languages as you suggest.

Sounds have specific meaning, if a the Spirit gives utterance such as "Ang Panginoon ay si Jesus ay Diyos"
The only way to interpret this is "The Lord Jesus is God"

It is imposible for two people to hear this as two difering languages as you suggest.

When one speaks in a "tongue of angles" that tongue would be only one language, that being of angles.

 2009/10/15 14:53Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. In this Scripture, we see that men who are saved. All men who are saved have the Holy Spirit, but that is different than when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. These men have not "baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.

Ah, but you didn't go further into the text. It says [b][color=CC0000]Acts 19:2-6 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.[/color][/b]It says that they were not believers in Jesus because Paul had to explain why they needed to believe in the "other" that should come after John. Paul didn't even ask them if they believed in Jesus he went right to the crux of the matter and wanted to know if they received His Spirit. And they said, we don't even know if there is a holy Ghost. So Paul after baptizing them in the name of Jesus, laid his hands on them so that they'd receive the holy Spirit. And when they received the holy Spirit, they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Ah, okay I got it.

Quote:
Quote:
However, people think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one time thing.

The sad thing is many think that way. Paul tells us to be filled all the time.

Yes, but it is only when one is filled that the Holy Spirit will use them &/or come upon them.
He can't use an empty vesel.

Some people think thay can just come into His presence and start praying in tounges with out being filled for Him to pore out from.
[b]Example:[/b]
Some one just gets off from work being stressed out from work and starts babbling, thinking that he is actualy praying.
He did not become filled first, how does he think that the Holy Spirit is poring out?

 2009/10/15 15:06Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 2:6-12 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Interpret this as you will, but it sounds as if they all heard all of them speak and they understood in their own language.

"Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"

Remember this is the Holy Spirit speaking through these men.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/10/15 15:32Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Acts 2:6-12 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Interpret this as you will, but it sounds as if they all heard all of them speak and they understood in their own language.

Remenber reality here.
One language is one language.
Your implying that one language can be heard as more than one.
This is unreal.

Quote:
"Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"

Remember this is the Holy Spirit speaking through these men.

Many men speaking each individual languages to be heard by them who spoke that individual language.

[b]Example:[/b]
Peter spoke Parthian.
Andrew, his brother spoke Median.
James son of Zebedee spoke Elamitian
James' brother John spoke Asian
Philip spoke Judean
Bartholomew spoke Cappadocian
Thomas spoke Pontusian
Matthew the tax collector spoke Phrygian
James son of Alphaeus spoke Pamphylia
Thaddaeus spoke Egyptian
Simon the Zealot spoke Libyan...

It can not be that Peter spoke in a language and all heard their own language.

 2009/10/15 16:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Some people think they can just come into His presence and start praying in tongues with out being filled for Him to pore out from. Example: Some one just gets off from work being stressed out from work and starts babbling, thinking that he is actually praying. He did not become filled first, how does he think that the Holy Spirit is poring out?

I see where you are coming from.

In actuality he can. It doesn't say that you have to be filled in order to operate in the gifts. For example, the LORD has moved upon me to write under the inspiration of the holy Spirit. I was not filled first. I was praying and seeking His face and my mind was on Him when I felt this need to pick up a pen and paper and he dictated to me words that I wrote down. I do not remember being "overwhelmed" or "filled".

In the little church that I attended so many years ago where a woman who was not dedicated to the things of God had that gift. She spoke in tongues and someone certainly interpreted. Both the tongue and the interpretation were correct.

It takes faith to speak in tongues in a crowd. The holy Spirit just doesn't take over without you believing that He is wanting to speak through you. For example, He may say to you, "Go over to your next door neighbour and give them a jug of milk, two loaves of bread and a jar of peanutbutter and jelly". Now you can either sit there and do nothing or obey the LORD. The ball is in your court. He is not going to pick your feet up and do it Himself. Now when you do make the start, it's like you've been given a set of wings because the willingness that you have (faith) is now being taken over by grace. But if you sit there and grieve the Spirit, the pressure is put on you to act. But if your stubborn enough, the Spirit will move on to someone else.

So it is with the gifts. You must come into agreement with what the Spirit wants.

I remember years ago in a revival service, that someone I knew for years was being used for the first time to interpret a message that someone had spoken in tongues. The preacher said, "It's not me, but it's someone that has never interpreted before, God wants to speak through you". Oh he was shaky, like a little child, he started to blurt out what God was saying. It was so precious seeing and hearing that. He wasn't filled, I knew him, but he loved God.

But I do understand your question though. Your saying in order to speak in tongues you have to have the water pressure turned up on the inside to where it bubbles out from your mouth. That my friend does happen, and I have seen that happen, but most times it does not.

We've put to much "sacredness" to the gifts of the Spirit that we simply have put them too far away from us so that we can't operate in them unless we do this that and the other. God used Baalim with his perverse and greedy ways, and God prophetically spoke through that man anyway.

 2009/10/15 18:13
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re:

Dear Logic,
You know, you do come off as a tad haughty. Like i said, i'm not inclined toward fine-sounding arguments.

You appear to be quite convinced of your position. Nothing wrong with that. But in trying to persuade others, you do sound condescending. I could be wrong....

I've read some of your responses..a gentler tone would've still conveyed your thoughts.

Anyways, this is my last post in this thread.

Peace to you and yours.


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Tolu

 2009/10/15 18:28Profile





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