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Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

This thread was started with the intention to stir up controversy among brothers. Only the severely ignorant would have expected anything less than doctrinal strife with this topic. What exactly did you hope to gain by this - that those who stand on opposite sides of the "speaking in tongues is the manifestation of baptism by the Spirit" belief would all come together in unity under the wisdom of your insight? This is sin. This is the pride of one gleefully rubbing against the pride of others to generate conflict. Shame on you.

 2009/10/15 11:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:
2. The Corinthian church are not operating in the gifts of the Spirit (i.e. they are “in the flesh”); Paul, realizing this, encourages them to operate “in the flesh” in a more orderly fashion, in lieu of addressing the problem (“they are in the flesh”).

They were only in the flesh because they were not taking into consideration unbelievers coming into the Church. He was not correcting their behaviour while speaking in tongues if they were all together by themselves, only IF their door was open for anyone to come, which in this case it was.

The Corinthian Church were a great bunch of believers that moved mightily in the gifts "to whom much is given, much is required", therefore they got the "whip" more often then most. God is not against the "sons of God" exercising their god given gifts, but it was necessary for God to send Paul to straighten out a good thing that was getting out of hand.

Today, Paul has spoken heavily on the subject that most congregations just throw the whole thing out, baby and bathwater, because of the confusion. It seems that the confusion only lies with those that have not received the promise which is given unto them that obey Him. Those of us who do "speak in tongues" there is no confusion at all.

 2009/10/15 11:48









 Re:

Quote:
The one who spoke Zulu would interpret the tongue. He would validate the authenticity of the tongue.

Maybe not. On the day of Pentecost there was no interpretation. Every man "heard" their own tongue being spoken of by the Apostles.

Quote:
First of all, speaking in other tongues does not prove that one has been baptized of the Holy Spirit

That is not scriptural. We have the bible for proof.

The teaching that one receives the Holy Spirit upon receiving Christ into one's heart is recent history and not apostolic. The book of Acts details the account of all those that have received the holy Spirit all spoke in tongues or prophesied. It's the initial sign that one has been filled with the Holy Spirit.

People are praying for revival, and we may as well get used to it now that when people start being filled with the holy Spirit your going to hear them speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.

As regards to your friend saying that the Holy Spirit told him to stop saying that, I heard that same voice too and found out it was the lie of the devil.

That's just the way it is!

 2009/10/15 12:02
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Theophila wrote:

There are times when i feel an urgent need to pray and I don't have a foggy idea as to what for or why. At those times, I let the Spirit of God help me by praying in tongues [See I Cor 14: 13-15].

We must be touched, moved, urged, lead, inspired...
Just because you pray, does not mean HE will move you to another tongue.

When one feels an urgent need to pray and you don't have a foggy idea as to what for or why. that would be the Lord just wanting you to talk to Him.
If you don't know what to pray for, then it is not a time for tongues, petition or intercessory and the like; it is the time for you to ask God, "what"?

The thing is, when you come to God in the way you described (just felt the urge to pray), are you full of the spirit as to be overwhelmed at the time when you come to Him?
Only when you are full of the Holy Spirit is when His spirit comes on you to pray in a tongue.
God can't use an empty vesel.

Meditate on Him and His Word which is in you and He will lead you in the conversation (prayer) and mayby fill you and lead you to a tongue.

Quote:
Most times, i end up praying in my understanding, what He wanted! At other times, i'm done praying and i still don't have a foggy idea what was that was about! I simply trust that some day here or in eternity, i may find out.

Prayer should always be a filling to some capacity.
The times you leave prayer thinking, "what that was about?"
You should know that you just left the presence of the All Mighty and He wanted your company.
Not that HE needed you, but that He knows that you needed Him in some way or another at that time of prayer.

I always feel that we shouldn't leave prayer feeling like "what was that was about".

Would you think it was a good & right thing if the King of a country wanted to talk to you. He brought you over to His country (your birth) and got you into his mansion (salvation), His guard (Holy Spirit) lead you into His chamber just so He may talk with you...
and you left thinking, "what that was about"

wouldn't you think that the King called you into His presence for a purpose?

Quote:
Do let's be careful not to force our understanding of Scripture as binding on others.

I'm not "forcing" anything.
I'm just saying that anything which we induce ourselves is just the flesh.

Just because you desire it does not mean the Spirit is leading it.
when we attempt a spiritual thing in a fleshly manner you, yourself are inducing it. We are doing it in the flesh until the Spirit is actually inducing it,

What do you think your doing when the Spirit is not actually initiating the action?
Do not confuse the desire for the spiritual gift as doing it in the spirit.

I do see the sincerity in true Christians, but one may be sincerely wrong.

Just because one desires a spiritual gift, does not mean their actions in attaining it is correct.

Anyone can babble all they want in the sincerity of thinking they are being used with the gift of tongues, but until He actually blesses one with the gift, all will done is babbling nonsense and wasting time with no prayer, nothing being accomplished.

With out the Spirit in action, nothing is done anything "in the spirit", because it was the flesh making the noise from their mouth with no intelligible words (not even spiritually intelligible words).

I desire the gift of tongues also, but I will not make a mockery of the gift by making the sounds (of the gift), hoping for the gift to actually make my sounds to be real.
Anyone can make the sounds of the gift of tongues, but unless the Spirit is behind it, they are only babbling; I will not take part in this.

My friend truly has the gift of tongues, but he may go a month with out praying in a tongue, because it is up to the Holy Spirit as to when.

True story:
One time, when he was new with the gift, he was praying in a tongue, then the Holy Spirit stopped, lifted, ended the tongues after a while.
But my friend wanted to keep going, so he just started to make the same sounds as before.
The Holy Spirit stopped him right there and said; "Now stop that, what do you think your doing?"

My friend thought that he would actually do something real & valid when he made the same sounds with out the Holy Spirit; but with out the Spirit, the sound is really nothing but babble, babble, babble...Undomy bowtiewho stolemyhonda...etc...

 2009/10/15 12:08Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Leo_Grace wrote:
This thread was started with the intention to stir up controversy among brothers. Only the severely ignorant would have expected anything less than doctrinal strife with this topic.

Stop it with your accusations. thats all I hear from you.

It is not for controversy, but conversation.

If anyone else has insight, they may post it here, that we may all learn.

Quote:
What exactly did you hope to gain by this

For some to actually come to a better understanding of how the gifts are accomplished (specifically the gift of tongues)

Quote:
- that those who stand on opposite sides of the "speaking in tongues is the manifestation of baptism by the Spirit" belief would all come together in unity under the wisdom of your insight?

Why not?
Any one with insight has a right to give it.

Quote:
This is sin.

How is teaching from insight a sin?

Quote:
This is the pride of one gleefully rubbing against the pride of others to generate conflict.

No it isn't, please don't post on this thread any more unless you have some insight which would not be sinnful to post.

Quote:
Shame on you.

Sshhhhhh, quiet please.

 2009/10/15 12:16Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3494
Louisiana

 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit



The gifts of the Spirit are to be used as the Spirit wills. It is not up to the individual when it comes to using a gift for building up the Church.

However tongues is not given to the believer to be used just as a gift for the Church, but also for the believer to use in prayer and intercession. Praying in the Spirit builds up the believer. The gifts of the Spirit build up the Church. "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself…" (1 Corinthians 14:4).
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost" (Jude 1:20).

Anyone that is Baptized in the Holy Spirit and that speaks in tongues can pray in tongues anytime that he wants to, because praying in tongues is praying in the Spirit. I pray in tongues every day, as well as pray with my understanding.

"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." (1 Corinthians 14:15).

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2009/10/15 12:25Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
The one who spoke Zulu would interpret the tongue. He would validate the authenticity of the tongue.

Maybe not. On the day of Pentecost there was no interpretation. Every man "heard" their own tongue being spoken of by the Apostles.

That is because their actual languages were being spoke.

Quote:
Quote:
First of all, speaking in other tongues does not prove that one has been baptized of the Holy Spirit

That is not scriptural. We have the bible for proof.

The teaching that one receives the Holy Spirit upon receiving Christ into one's heart is recent history and not apostolic. The book of Acts details the account of all those that have received the holy Spirit all spoke in tongues or prophesied.

[b]Act 19:2[/b] [color=990000]He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
[b]:3[/b] And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[b]:4[/b] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.[/color]
In this Scripture, we see that men who are saved. All men who are saved have the Holy Spirit, but that is different than when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.
These men have not "baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.

Quote:
It's the initial sign that one has been filled with the Holy Spirit.

The initial sign that one has been filled with the Holy Spirit is the power to be witnesses for Christ (Act 1:8).
The gifts are for that purpose; they did start speaking in other tongues (it was for evangelical reasons), but that is not the proof.
The proof was POWER.
Peter went from a coward to a bold preacher.
The disciples when from a band of common folk to a band of leaders.

We get the power to read & understand His Word in a better light, power of boldness in times of fear, powere for deeper worship, power more inspire praise...etc...

The tongues is the least of the benefits of the baptism of the Spirit.

However, people think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one time thing.
If you understand baptism correctly, you will know that it is an overwhelming, as being submerged.
The baptism of the Spirit should be an on going thing for every day.

Quote:
People are praying for revival, and we may as well get used to it now that when people start being filled with the holy Spirit your going to hear them speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.

Amen!!!
But lets teach them to be lead by the Spirit and not induce it on their own.

Quote:
As regards to your friend saying that the Holy Spirit told him to stop saying that, I heard that same voice too and found out it was the lie of the devil.
Quote:
With my friends case, the Holy Spirit lifted and stopped the gift of tongues, my friend wanted to go on with out the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Why would the devil want to stop you from babbling on & on when the Holy Spirit stopped praying through you in another tongues?

The devil would want you to continue to babble in nonsense, wasting time with nothing being accomplished spiritually.

Please explain that when the Holy Spirit told him to stop when HE stopped is a "lie from the devil"
Please explain this.

 2009/10/15 12:54Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:
Sshhhhhh, quiet please.


Gal 6:3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Pr 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.

Pr 16:5 The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Pr 17:19 He who loves a quarrel loves sin; he who builds a high gate invites destruction.

Pr 26:12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

 2009/10/15 13:09Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Leo_Grace wrote:
Quote:
Sshhhhhh, quiet please.

Gal 6:3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Pr 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.
Pr 16:5 The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
Pr 17:19 He who loves a quarrel loves sin; he who builds a high gate invites destruction.
Pr 26:12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

You don't read to well, do you?

please don't post on this thread any more unless you have some insight which would not be sinnful to post.

 2009/10/15 13:30Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:
Leo_Grace wrote:
Quote:
Sshhhhhh, quiet please.

Gal 6:3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Pr 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.
Pr 16:5 The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
Pr 17:19 He who loves a quarrel loves sin; he who builds a high gate invites destruction.
Pr 26:12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

You don't read to well, do you?

please don't post on this thread any more unless you have some insight which would not be sinnful to post.



This is my insight about you and your reason for opening a thread that does nothing but promote strife among brothers regarding a topic that cannot be resolved Scripturally.

Oh I can read much better than you think - I can read past your pretensions.

Ps 101:5 Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence; [b]whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart, him will I not endure[/b].

 2009/10/15 13:54Profile





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