SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Tongues - flesh or spirit

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Tongues - flesh or spirit

Can you choose when to give a word of wisdom or knowledge?
Can you choose when to have uncommone faith?
Can you choose when to heal or to do a miracle?
Can you choose when to take the gift of prophecy?
Can you choose when to discern spirits?

Last question:
Are you deciding when you will speak or pray in tongues?

No one can just say, "I'm going to pray in tongues now", as much as they can say that they will take any of the other gifts of the Spirit now; if you do, all you will be truly doing is babbling.

If you, yourself are inducing the so called "tongue", it is not of the Spirit.

The true gift of tongues is like a cup of water filled to the brim (no more room for water), then one comes along and puts a refreshing ice cube into the cup; the water can't help but to over flow and spill out.
The same with the gift of tongues, when praying and becoming filled with His Spirit, you will find yourself overflowing and the gift will spill out of you (if you let it).

 2009/10/14 20:39Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

Amen, for who does the choosing of the place, time and which gift is to be used for upbuilding of the Body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.

Not as I will.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/10/14 22:07Profile









 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

I take it that you've never experienced the "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance"?

I say that because your only ministering to one audience and that being those who do not believe in the physical manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit through individuals. They may "say" they believe it but wrap it up so tight with regulations that no one dare manifest in their congregations.

As for "babblings" as you call it, the praying in tongues alone can be uttered by the will of the individual. The speaking in tongues in a Church setting or wherever there is a gathering is by the Spirit as He is giving forth the message and not the individual. In private, there is no need of interpretation as the person who is praying in that Angelic lingo he is being refreshed in his spirit.

None of the first 5 questions is operated by any individual (though many have tried), it's operated by the Holy Spirit by one chief element that we must exhibit and that is Faith. None of the gifts can operate unless we or the person seeking that service has Faith.

The last question that you asked, is actually 2 in one. The speaking in an unknown tongue is one question and the second is praying in tongues, both are not the same.

Now here is a question, are those of us who have received the Holy Spirit and have spoken in tongues, and we pray in secret a lot of "babbling", have we received the Holy Spirit or another spirit?

What if one stood up and spoke in Zulu and you didn't know Zulu, all your hearing is clicks and gibberish, how do you know if it's genuine or not?

 2009/10/14 22:25
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

It says they spoke as the spirit gave them words, they spoke themselves as i read it, the source was the spirit, but i think it is we who speak the words, i am very skeptic to anyone who says "i can not control" what is happening, the spirit is also the spirit of self control, I dont think ever the spirit "forces" us to do things we can not control or have a saying in.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/15 3:45Profile









 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

spirit

 2009/10/15 8:26
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

I'm not able to give a fine-sounding argument as to why one who is baptized in the Holy Ghost may decide to pray in tongues as they will but I can offer my testimony.

There are times when i feel an urgent need to pray and I don't have a foggy idea as to what for or why. At those times, I let the Spirit of God help me by praying in tongues [See I Cor 14: 13-15]. Most times, i end up praying in my understanding, what He wanted! At other times, i'm done praying and i still don't have a foggy idea what that was about! I simply trust that some day here or in eternity, i may find out.

Do let's be careful not to force our understanding of Scripture as binding on others.

IT IS WELL.


_________________
Tolu

 2009/10/15 9:02Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re: Tongues - flesh or spirit

Logic

Just some thoughts, I think there are various indications in scripture that God gives the autonomy to the "gift-bearer" :-

1) The gifts of the Spirit are just that "gifts". They are [b]given[/b] to the recipient.

2) Moses used his God-given gifts to strike the Rock to produce water instead of speaking to it as God had instructed. It still "worked" despite Moses having disobeyed God, demonstrating that Moses had a autonomy in the exercise of his gifts even to the point of disobedience.

2) The prophet Elisha asked his servant Gehazi(!) what could be done for the Shunamite woman that had kindly received him and acted on Gehazi's suggestion.

3) Paul instructed people to use the gift of tongues in an orderly fashion within meetings, demonstrating that the gift-bearer has autonomy over the gift. Obviously some people were using their gifts in a fashion and time that wasn't appropriate. The inappropriate use didn't come from God, but was rather misuse of the autonomy that God had previously given. Paul didn't mention anything about the manifestation itself being false at this point.

I think God gives autonomy together with the gift but expects it to be used within certain guidelines. A bit like giving your credit card to a child...

PassingThru

 2009/10/15 10:09Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
DeepThinker wrote:
I take it that you've never experienced the "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance"?

First of all, speaking in other tongues does not prove that one has been baptized of the Holy Spirit.

To be baptized is the same as being overwhelmed with Him; immersed in Him.
I have been overwhelmed with Him; immersed in Him many times, but I have not been blessed to be used with the gift of tongues. However, I have been used with the gift of healings, the gift of word of wisdom, and the gift of faith.

Quote:
I say that because your only ministering to one audience and that being those who do not believe in the physical manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit through individuals. They may "say" they believe it but wrap it up so tight with regulations that no one dare manifest in their congregations.

That's not me or my Church of which I attend.

Quote:
As for "babblings" as you call it, the praying in tongues alone can be uttered by the will of the individual.

How so? The gift of tongues only comes as the Spirit wills (1Corinth 12:11), untill then your only babeling nonsense.
The correct thing to do is become filled by praying with understanding, singing, making melody in your heart, praising God, glorifying God, then if the Lord wills, He will grace you with the gift.

Do not abused the gift by fabricating one untill He happens to use you with His gift; that is not how it should be done.

Quote:
Now here is a question, are those of us who have received the Holy Spirit and have spoken in tongues, and we pray in secret a lot of "babbling", have we received the Holy Spirit or another spirit?

All have received the Holy spirit if they are saved, for all His people have His seal. However, to have the Holy Spirit come upon you is very different.

My friend truly has the gift of tongues, but he may go a month with out praying in a tongue, because it is up to the Holy Spirit as to when.

One time, when he was new with the gift, he was praying in a tongue, then the Holy Spirit stopped after a while, but my friend wanted to keep going, so he just started to make the same sounds as before.
The Holy Spirit stopped him right there and said; "Now stop that, what do you think your doing?"

My friend thought that he would actually do something real & valid when he made the same sounds with out the Holy Spirit; but with out the Spirit, the sound is really nothing but babble, babble, babble...Undomy bowtiewho stolemyhonda...etc...

Quote:
What if one stood up and spoke in Zulu and you didn't know Zulu, all your hearing is clicks and gibberish, how do you know if it's genuine or not?

The one who spoke Zulu would interpret the tongue. He would validate the authenticity of the toungue.

However, if you are unducing the tongue, then it is of the flesh.

 2009/10/15 11:13Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
hmmhmm wrote:
It says they spoke as the spirit gave them words, they spoke themselves as i read it, the source was the spirit, but i think it is we who speak the words

Yes, we must make the sounds with out volcal cords and move our tongue, jaw & lips.

Quote:
i am very skeptic to anyone who says "i can not control" what is happening, the spirit is also the spirit of self control.
I dont think ever the spirit "forces" us to do things we can not control or have a saying in.

I agree. We are able to suprerss the speaking in tongues also.



 2009/10/15 11:25Profile
bdcutler
Member



Joined: 2009/9/15
Posts: 22
Mitchell SD

 Re:

[Edit: Logic, I see you responded while I was writing the below, and it appears you have made some clarification to what you are trying to say. I'll leave my post up, even though it doesn't really apply anymore.]

Let's assume the gifts of the Spirit are, as you state, out of the receiver's control. Let's read Paul's letter to the Corithain church and see what conclusions we come up with this idea as our basis:

1 Corithians 14:26-40:

Quote:

How is it then, brethren? When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.



There are three conclusions here:

1. [b]The Corinthian church really are operating in the gifts of the Spirit.[/b] If this is the case then what is Paul doing here? What is he trying to correct here when the operation of a gift is out of the receiver’s control? We could try to figure it out, but any conclusion is so absurd, I don't think we even want to go any further here.

2. [b]The Corinthian church are not operating in the gifts of the Spirit (i.e. they are “in the flesh”);[/b] Paul, realizing this, encourages them to operate “in the flesh” in a more orderly fashion, in lieu of addressing the problem (“they are in the flesh”).

3. [b]The Corinthian church are not operating in the gifts of the Spirit (i.e. they are “in the flesh”);[/b] but Paul believes they really are operating in the gifts of the Spirit. This is because he doesn’t realize that when we are really operating in the gifts of the Spirit, we do so out of our own control. If he only knew this fundamental tenet of Christianity he could plainly see that there is no way they are operating in the gifts of the Spirit, and he could address the real issue here.

I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader why each of these conclusions is absurd.

Quote:

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.



Again what is Paul trying to say here?

Quote:

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.



I’m having a difficult time understanding what point Paul is attempting to address here. After all, the gift “just happens” it’s out of the receiver’s control, right? How can it be subject to the prophet?

Quote:

For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.



Again, why this exhortation? What is this correction about?

Quote:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? Came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.



What are the commandments of the Lord about, if indeed, the gift is outside of the receiver's control?

Quote:

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.



I don't know, but I suspect the thesis is wrong. The gifts are indeed under the control of the receiver. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to who he will (1 Corinthians 12:11), but the spirits of the prophet is subject to the prophets (1 Corinthians 14:32).

Did Jonah go directly to Ninavah when given the word of prophecy, or was the spirit of the prophet under his control?


_________________
Benjamin Cutler

 2009/10/15 11:26Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy