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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can we maintain spiritual unity with doctrinal diversity in the church?

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 the letter, but not the Spirit.

Some wield Holy Scripture as they would a sword. If I am to boast, I boast in the Lord, that He has given me a hunger for His Word, and to that end, I am in It, everyday.

The reason I sometimes don't quote Scripture, is because sometimes, I just wish to encourage other brethern, which is what I did with our brother who started this thread.

Now I know, that anyone can take Scripture and use it, twist it to fit whatever direction they wish to go. I have no desire for argument or diviseness, but I've noticed that an ugly and fell spirit has befallen this forum of late.

Besides the Word, I read everything. I read and watch the comings and goings of the physical world, because what we see going on today, though physical, is really part of a much larger battle, that is God's battle against satan. I watch the what the islamic jihadists do, sometimes I even watch translated "sermons" from islamic clerics scattered throughout the Levant, just full of hatred they are.

Now here is what just breaks my heart, when I read certain posters on this forum, in the Spirit, and in my spirit, I feel that both islamic clerics, and certain posters bear very similiar testimonies, and bear very similiar heartspaces, the only difference is that in the US, one cant take a gun, or a bomb and do away with "heretics", or "apostates" without either being killed by a SWAT team, or taken into custody and put behind bars for a very long time. Plus I believe that these jihadist hellhounds got "stones", though they are completely of their father the devil, whereas some posters who eviscerate, devour, backbite others on this forum are basically cowards, theological bullies, armchair hero's, and quite frankly, I want to have nothing to do with them, dusting my feet off.

I love my brother Greg Gordon dearly in the Lord, what a vision he had, and the Lord has blessed it, and via Greg's ministry, I have been blessed. But now I do believe that this forum has become a stench, and my humble advice to him would be to close it, but at the same time, many are truly blessed by this forum, via prayer requests, via announcements so saints can watch revival conferences.

But I can't do this anymore, reading and posting on this forum, [b]for me[/b] is no longer edifying, quite the opposite, its become a stumble.

 2009/10/14 9:56
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: the letter, but not the Spirit.

Quote:
But now I do believe that this forum has become a stench, and my humble advice to him would be to close it,


Neil,

You've been around long enough to recognize patterns on SermonIndex. The forums go through seasons of abundance, and seasons of drought. In light of all this, we need to uphold God's standard, both in season and out of season.

The answer is not in closing the forum. Paul didn't dissolve the Corinthian church when he got word of their debautcheries and wranglings and carnal factions. Given enough time, the men and women causing strife here will be uprooted by God Himself, and a new batch of godly-minded posters will flow in their stead. This new season will continue for some time, before a new influx of carnal-minded posters will once again try to plant their flags here. And on and on it goes. The key to all this is patience, vigilence, diligence and discernment. Nothing is impossible or too burdenful when you have the mind of Christ.

Please pray that we (Greg and the mods) would always operate within that mind.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/10/14 11:14Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps you all are talking about a kind of doctrine that is different that what is addressed in Scripture.



No.

A person can give intellectual assent without allowing its message to impact his/her mind and allowing it to effect his/her walk where the rubber meets the road.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/10/14 11:52Profile









 Re:


Elected posted:

Quote:
[b]Is it Gods perfect will that his children join denominations and live in schisms and divisions ?

I dont think so, but God in his mercy permits such things to happend and overpasses their ignorance and blesses his godly people that are part of diffrent theological camps or evangelical groups.

[/b]


[b]Walter responds:[/b]

Are the above statements true,[b] or are they FALSE? [/b]Does God want all of us to meld together as one,
before His return? Does He want us to "all to get along"?

Does He want the Christian, who esteems Christ and his Word above all else to be as one with the
Catholic, who holds the Pope in higher esteem than Christ and His Word, who worships on his knees to Icons and Idols, and bows down to Mary, the "Queen of Heaven"?

What does Christ tell us in His own words of this type of "unity"?

Exodus 8:23
23. And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.

Luke 12:51-53
51. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

John 10:18-21
18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20. And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21. Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

Romans 16:17-20
17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences[u] contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.[/u]
18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

We are to divide from among them, and be separate, until His return. Some believe God when He says that He esteems His Word above His Name. What are we to do, but to separate from those who do not believe the Word of God, from those who are not obedient to Him.



Sincererly,

Walter

 2009/10/14 13:13









 Paul

Brother,

Quote:
Please pray that we (Greg and the mods) would always operate within that mind.



I always do, this website has been a blessing to me.....and I'm sure countless others.

neil

 2009/10/14 13:28
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps you all are talking about a kind of doctrine that is different that what is addressed in Scripture.



No.

A person can give intellectual assent without allowing its message to impact his/her mind and allowing it to effect his/her walk where the rubber meets the road.

ginnyrose




Agreed on your point. I was wrongly linking this thread with a prior thread where many commented that believing in doctrine doesn't save anybody. I should really have posted my point there instead of this thread. My apologies. I just find it interesting that the word doctrine seems to be a bad word these days. My understanding that scripturally doctrine is just "teaching" and if this is so then faith in the teachings(doctrines) of Christ is a prerequisite of salvation. Certain doctrines are essential to salvation; some are not. Otherwise, believing doesn't make much sense by itself.

 2009/10/14 13:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:
We are to divide from among them, and be separate, until His return. Some believe God when He says that He esteems His Word above His Name. What are we to do, but to separate from those who do not believe the Word of God, from those who are not obedient to Him.



The Plymouth Brethren movement is instructive. It began when a group of Irishmen discarded the professional clergy and traditional ecclesiology and formed a fellowship "run strictly along New Testament lines." The first schism took place in the mid-19th Century between the Open Brethren, who fellowshipped with all believers, and the Exclusive Brethren, who denied fellowship to anyone who tolerated "compromise," including the Open Brethren. Having disfellowshipped everyone else, the Exclusive Brethren began brawling amongst themselves and by the 20th Century had schismed into no less than 48 separate sects, mostly over modes of baptism: whether it should be in running water or calm, forward or backward, with one plunge or three. One of these, the River Brethren, practiced foot-washing. But then a dispute arose over foot-washing methodology: should one brother wash and another dry, or should both functions be performed by the same brother? They divided into the One-Mode and Two-Mode River Brethren.

If this is what happens when men establish a fellowship "strictly along New Testament lines," it must be what God has in mind for His church: that we keep dividing into smaller and smaller sects until each individual believer has disfellowshipped the entire church and every man is a denomination unto himself. This is already the practice of many in the "Ministry of the Watchman" (heresiologists who are so doctrinally pure that they have dropped out of church altogether and serve God by policing internet forums for error and heresy).

 2009/10/14 17:59
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

elharris wrotte:

Quote:
ALL THESE ECCUMENICAL GROUPS, that you suggest we join, corrupt the truth, and are being gathered together for the last days. I would say that if you love the truth and are seeking it, the LAST place you want to be is with them, when the Lord comes.



Dear brother i think there is a misunderstanding between us. I will make myself and what i belief clear so as to clear off any confusion. Paul wrote to the corinthian church:

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? [2] Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

We who believe the Lord Jesus Christ are called to purity of life and holiness.True unity is in truth and in the Spirit.God's heart im sure desires to see all his childrens in peace with each other and spiritual unity and he wants them to have the mind of Christ and walk in humility.

God's love knows no bounderies, if we love God we will love our neighbor and especially our brothers & sisters in the Lord who love the TRUTH and walk in righteousness and hate sin and lawlessness.

Tue believers today are the chosen remnant of God scattered throughout the world in many christian denominations or non denominations. It seems that visible unity of genuine christians today looks impossible for different reasons. As for the unity and ecumenism of the apostate church, this is an abomination to God.This worldly "church" is anticipating the comming of antichrist and woe to those who have been guilty of not seperating themselves from those people who bearing the name of Christ worship idols and walk in lawlesness. Having the form of godliness yet denying its power these people like the pharises go around the world to deceive the perishing souls and make disciples for hell.

God has not called us to be individual christians but to be a corporate body of Jesus Christ. The true catholic (universal)church is spiritualy united in Christ, for they have the Spirit of God and the Word of God inside them.
God's heart longs for his saints in local churches to be united in truth & bonded in love.

When i say saints i mean those who have been chosen by the Father, called, justified and sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Who are in communion with the Holy Spirit and know the love of God. Those who desire the glory of God and to do his will and bear fruit and obey his commandments.

We are admonished to fight for the FAITH once for all delivered to the saints. A man of God should rightly divide the word of truth. To speak the truth in love and its God who grants repentance to the sinner or by his Spirit enlightened and opens the mind of the a brother in the Lord.

The true saints are members of the universal mystical body of Christ and living stones of the temple of the living God and this invisible union and harmony in Christ should be reflected in all the local churches of God. If we dont come to local union with each other, thats our fault.

I want to close with the benediction of Paul to corinthians:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.





_________________
Redi

 2009/10/14 18:35Profile









 Re: Can we maintain spiritual unity with doctrinal diversity in the church?

There is a fundamental doctrine of Jesus Christ. There has to be a foundation. It's either built on the sand or on a Rock. Who decides what doctrine is applicable? Hebrews 6 is a good start. I am just speaking about the foundation. Yes all those listed will be there in heaven, but in order for them to get there, they have had to have stepped over unto that foundation that would have made their salvation sure. A Catholic who is putting their trust in the Pope is not on solid footing.

There has to be a line drawn for the basics of this great salvation that we all have been partakers of, THAT must be laid down. Once we ALL understand the fundamental basics and all come into agreement with that, all this other stuff we argue about is hen feathers thrown to the wind, they mean nothing. Those who put those above what is foundational is simply looking to debate, and of such turn away.

 2009/10/14 22:38
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, when paul said i know nothing among you save for Jesus Christ and Him crucified he meant that he could fellowship with all who live this truth anf that was his only firm doctrine that qualified one for fellowship... how baptized,osas, sabbath etc.did not disqualify.jimp Jesus said he who is not against us is with us.

 2009/10/15 5:38Profile





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