SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
All I can say is that for our own church people is the males would do whatever they can but shooting to kill is not one of the options. Seems to me this point is too many times overlooked, as though shooting to kill is the only option one can use to protect/defend himself against harmful behaviors.



I was trained to shoot to kill, but I would agree... an intruder can be subdued without killing him. I have done this myself. He was held against the wall at gun point until the police arrived. I did him no harm though I could have killed him instantly.

I now minister to him in jail.

As I said, my training is to shoot to kill, but have also been trained to use my head. The mind is the best weapon.

So while I do think God expects us to protect our families as real men... Ginny is correct. Killing is an assumption here, but protecting your family does not have to include killing if you know what your doing.

Did I assault this man? You bet. But because I had the element of surprise and came at him like a tornado... I didn't have to hurt him.

I had been holding back this information from y'all, but yes I have actually faced this situation personally. My training and God-given instincts kicked in and I handle the situation... without deadly force, though I was more than willing to use it if necessary.

Krispy

 2009/10/14 9:19
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

orthodox wrote:
Quote:
God being my helper I would walk right into harms way for my wife and family believing God and his spiritual weapons.



So if you walked in on someone (I want to be discreet here...please be discreet in your response as well...I beg you) who was violating your wife or daughter, you mean to tell me that you would drop to your knees and pray instead of try to deliver them?

Have you talked to your wife about your views? If so, what does she think?

If you are wondering what I would do, I would most likely turn into that man's worst nightmare.

Enough said.




Orthodox,

I don’t know how you got “bowing on knees” with “walk into harms way”. It seems clear to me that from all your replies and the way you add words and twist people’s words on this forum that you are after your own agenda. I am seeking God’s will and trusting him to live out that perfect will of God. I said I would walk into harms way with spiritual weapons, that is, being filled with the spirit and speaking in the name of Jesus whatever the spirit gave me to say. My wife is also filled with the Holy Ghost.

The scripture teaches us that we are crucified with Christ and that we are to be dead to self but alive to God. We are to walk in the power of the Spirit. I could tell you of times that I have had supernatural things to happen in my life but I don’t think you would understand because you seem to always resort to carnal weapons and try to make it look like those who don’t want to use carnal weapons are not protecting their family.

I had rather live in the power of the Holy Spirit trusting in God than to live in fear thinking that I need to resort to carnal weapons. I had rather believe God to look out for my family than to falsely believe that I need to resort to carnal weapons in order to protect my family thinking that I could protect them better than God could. Now I’m not telling you orthodox what to do because you might need carnal weapons. I am not the one to tell you what to do. There are people that know how to use a carnal weapon and can use it well but not me. Since I have now been baptized in the Holy Ghost, I never want to resort to carnal weapons but only being strong in the Lord and the power of his might. I have so much more confidence in the Holy Ghost than I do a gun or any other carnal weapon.

Orthodox it would seem from all your posts that you haven’t experience the baptism in the Holy Ghost but if you ever got a powerful infilling you would write differently. Brother I could tell you about some mighty experiences I have had but unless you have been filled yourself you would find it hard to believe. Maybe I could ask you a question, would you walk across a yard where a man looked upset with a crowbar in his hand walking back to a vehicle with a woman and children in it, to witness to the man not knowing what he was going to do. Also with a Rottweiler dog that has been trained to be mean and protect, who had been on a chain, but this time was loose in the yard with an invisible fence. Would you walk right into that dog’s territory? Well I know a man who did, being full of the Holy Ghost, walk right across that yard and the dog took off after him like he was going to tear into him, but the man never flinched and never got scared. The dog got right to the man’s leg but only whimpered and turned back to the house. The man with the crowbar was stunned, because the dog whimpered away, but he listened to the gospel that day.

Blessings to you!

 2009/10/14 10:07Profile
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

We are children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

50 Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


And what was one thing Abraham did, that is also written in the NT?


Gen 14:12 And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

14 [b]And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, AND SMOTE THEM, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.[/b]

16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.

18 [b]And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand.[/b] And he gave him tithes of all.


And mentioned in the NT.


Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;


Why did God bless Abraham here? Because Abraham finally had enough faith to trust God and defend his family. It's called LOYALTY and COURAGE.


Why didn't Abraham "just pray"? Because God does not DO IT, ....YOU DO IT, through the strength and power of God.


Jesus is very much into "self defence" when it is lawful and available.


luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, [b]But now,[/b] he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: [b]and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.[/b]


It's interesting that I just watched a documentary on the Sword last night. It is a weapon of agression and self defence. The equivalent today would be a "gun".


Abraham and his trained servants went out with swords.


Jesus would have no problem if you defended your wife and family or yourself, against a criminal nutcase breaking into your home or any other place.


Jesus does not desire "martyrs", he desires "LIVING' sacrifices. You can't do much for God dead.


If God would have ever delivered anyone in such a situation it would have been Lot, and God would not have sent Abraham to do what he did. This act showed that Abraham had LOYALTY, and courage. Something SORELY LACKING in many Chritians today, who will sell out their brothers and sisters at the drop of a hat.



Matt 24:9 Then shall they (professed Christians) deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many (Christians) be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound (in the heart of many "Christians"), the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he (that Christian) that shall endure unto the end (not doing what is listed above), the same shall be saved.


Not defend your wife and children, drop to your knees and pray? After the guy get's done with them, your next!


Now to forgive someone for doing something like this, if you could not prevent it. Or to forgive youself, that is Christian. But to sit by and do nothing IF you could do something, you might as well have murdred them yourself. And I believe anyone with that mentality, God would considder you a murderer as well.


1 Tim 5:[b]But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.[/b]


If God considderes you a worse than a heathen just for not providing for your own family, how much more for not protecting them when you could. After all you don't just sit around and pray that God will put bread on the table. You have to get out and WORK (oh sorry I know that's a four letter word to some of you.)

And what about this?

Psl 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3[b] Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.[/b]

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


It is a mamby pamby spoiled and unrealistic society we live in that produces weak ineffectual effeminate men, who would sit there and just watch their wife and children be abused, murdered and raped. This is what is known as being "without natural affection".


"Without natural affection", is not gay, persay, but [b]not having even the natural definsive instincts that any animal has for it's young.[/b] It's actually worse than being homosexual, because even homosexuals will defind and die for their children and one another. So far gone, so far away from the truth, that even the most basic natural instinct that even a lowly dumb animal has is MISSING.


You're supposed to love your wife as yourself. I guarentee that if some guy attacts you and wanted to rape you, you might put up a little fight. I doubt if you would just lay there passivly and "pray".


Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. The whole problem with getting in there and getting "involved" is that you might get "hurt" and also die in the process.

That we trust in God, that we pray and that God protects and guides us is and should be a surity. But to actually "fight" if you have to is also at times, of God.

That you should build an arsenal, I do not advocate. Not necessarily even going out and buying a gun. But to FIGHT in a given situation is perfectly biblical and of faith also.

(Had to edit this a million times) Because I want to be clear, that if the situation warrents it, and IF you have the power, it is your responcibility to trust God and DO SOMETHING. If you are truly walking by the spirit of God, you will have the power and the means, God will make a way to escape. And no I do not advocate killing someone if you do not have to.



El Harris

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.









 2009/10/14 10:14Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Quote:

rbanks wrote:

The apostles did not carry carnal weapons to use against others



John 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

Scripture says something different from you

Quote:
We are all called to be apostles.



1 Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

No we are not all called to be Apsotles.





Please show me one incident in the bible after pentecost that any of the apostles used a carnal sword against any other person. They only used the sword of the Spirit.

When I said called to be an apostle I was implying to the christian to be filled with the Spirit to function as an apostle because Jesus said that we can be sent as he was sent.

The truth is many are called but few chosen.

Blessings to you!

 2009/10/14 10:16Profile









 Re:

All these hypotheticals... dreamed up by people who have never been in such situations.

Some of you are no better than "arm chair quarterbacks" who think you have all the answers to situations you have never been in.

"I would just pray while this man has his way with my family!" Sure you would. And if you really did then you deserve to share a jail cell with the criminal. May you rot there.

I dont mean to get personal about this, but some of you are not men in my eyes OR God's.

Krispy

++EDIT++ PS... that was not a quote of anyone, that was a generalization of what some are saying.

 2009/10/14 10:49
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

I removed this because I know there are women on here who have been violated and they are not at the place of understanding and I would NEVER slap them in the face with Scripture.

Pray one for another.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/10/14 10:54Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Krispy

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
All these hypotheticals... dreamed up by people who have never been in such situations.

Some of you are no better than "arm chair quarterbacks" who think you have all the answers to situations you have never been in.

"I would just pray while this man has his way with my family!" Sure you would. And if you really did then you deserve to share a jail cell with the criminal. May you rot there.

I dont mean to get personal about this, but some of you are not men in my eyes OR God's.

Krispy



Amen, I was going to ask if some had truly been in this situation. I enjoyed your testimony also. God gave you both - the weapons with a brain AND His Spirit to guide you.

Thank you for this!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/10/14 10:58Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
All these hypotheticals... dreamed up by people who have never been in such situations.

Some of you are no better than "arm chair quarterbacks" who think you have all the answers to situations you have never been in.

"I would just pray while this man has his way with my family!" Sure you would. And if you really did then you deserve to share a jail cell with the criminal. May you rot there.

I dont mean to get personal about this, but some of you are not men in my eyes OR God's.

Krispy

++EDIT++ PS... that was not a quote of anyone, that was a generalization of what some are saying.




You hit the nail on the head brother!

I also enjoyed your testimony concerning how you handled a real live situation.

I am definitely not a total nonresistant person. I believe in resisting the devil and anyone who would try and harm another person.

I respect law enforcement and the military and all in authority ordain by God.

Blessings to all!

 2009/10/14 11:56Profile









 Re:

"Amen. Provision seems to be a general statement here. Although the obvious presents itself, providing protection I think can also be applied. But I also say that the battle for protection isn't just in our physical capacity... not every man in every household can walk, run, or move swiftly.... it is in the prayer closet. I had surgery a couple of years ago that left me medicated and incapacititated... my protection was rendered useless. So my trust and strength was in God's faithfulness to provide what I clearly couldn't. As much as food, drink, and shelter are all noble things in provision... a prayerless man in the household does his whole family a disservice in his duty of provision." ccrider

I for one certainly hope the quotes concerning prayer while watching someone having their way with the family was not directed towards this. If so, I would like to vomit at the accusation.

My point was that I had limited ability to protect my family and prayed for protection for them BEFORE I even went into surgery. Come on now. I don't care who you are, anyone who has a family will step in and protect from an intruder no matter what the physical circumstance. My simple question is this... as head of the household, men, is it necessary to pray for the protection of your family? I'm not around my daughter when she is in school.... I'm limited in my capacity to protect her. As one who has investigated heanous crimes against children, I attest to the fact that protection is needed. But I also know that many of those crimes were commited outside of the father's capacity to protect. Period. I've had enough of the blow hards that can't seem to understand their limitations for protection and am equally tired of those who want to use scripture to tie one's hand behind their backs and make people feel that physical protection of those, such as family, or a situation where physical protection is needed isn't the Christian way. I won't be so bold as to say that either aren't people of God or that they should rot. If I want to get personal, it will have to be for something a little less ridiculous than all this.

 2009/10/14 12:37
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

You are all actually agreeing with each other, but in a most disagreeable way. Must it be like this? Where is the mark of Jesus in all of us?

 2009/10/14 12:48Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy