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 Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

OK, it's one thing to talk about kill or be killed. But if someone breaks into your house and tries to hurt your wife and babies, what then?

I'll start:

If someone see his family, a neighbor, or a stranger being violated in a clearly sick or deadly way...and does nothing to help that person...how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Would you shut up your bowels of compassion toward them?

Would you pray that God smite the evil doer from heaven...or would you forget that God has you right there to do what is just?

I readily admit that the context of the passage I'm about to post doesn't specifically deal with this, but doesn't the same spiritual principle apply?

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" 1 John 3:17

 2009/10/12 3:08
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

is not that what the apostle peter did in the garden of Gethsemane? he did not stand idle while his master that he loved more then everything, he left his family and father and work to follow him, and his natural instinct was to defend the Lord Jesus. What did Jesus command him and tell him?

First we need to consider if someone attacks us, that God has allowed them to, just like God allowed satan to kill all of Jobs children God may allow something to happened to us that is beyond our understanding. but his ways are over our ways.

I think it may be not wise to set up a absolute law for this scenario.

But i have always said to muslims, why they need to defend their faith with the sword if their God is so mighty? I guess it is the same for us.

I cant remember what sermon Keith Daniel shares he was attacked by two men with a large knife, and as they cut into him and the blood started flowing, he started to pray for them and they where amazed and stopped, and he screamed after them "I want to see you in heaven" , i miss a lot, maybe someone can post the link if they remember the name of the sermon?

maybe in some cases God lead someone to defend themselves, i cant find any NT examples in my memory, but there may be anyway :-)

anyhow, it is not wise to give absolutes here i think, to say a man that will trust God with his family in all things is doing evil for not raising his hand against an enemy is not good either, and vice versa.

As i understand my bible we should not use violence ever, except when chasing out the moneychangers from our churches.

other then that i cant find Jesus doing it so i will not either. But the test still stands since i have not been in the situation myself, if it where to happened it may be so i will react with my natural man and in a moment raise up and do otherwise. But i pray that i would be in Gods will in all things.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/12 5:57Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2661
Nottingham, England

 Re:


Why the questiion?

 2009/10/12 6:04Profile









 Re: Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

Quote:
OK, it's one thing to talk about kill or be killed. But if someone breaks into your house and tries to hurt your wife and babies, what then?



need you even ask? (I dont mean that in offense)
but clearly, in this world, there are the sons of the light, and the sons of the darkness, and many men have been given over to their father, the destroyer....and if one is truly a man after God's own Heart, and is embroiled in such a hellish situation, he will act, without any hesitation, in the power of the Lord.

Some might say, "turn the other cheek", as Messiah has said. True, but Jesus was refering to a slap in the face, which is more of an insult, rather than some meth crazed demon possessed son of hell acting in his evil and vile ways to kill and destroy your loved ones, which do include your neighbor, which is also why, in the wisdom of the secular laws, "home invasion', the owner of the house is given extraordinary latitude to protect and defend that which God has blessed his house with.

I dont know if I would use 1 John 3:17 to buttress this (God forbid) potential hellish situation, but thats just me. My prayer is that you or whoever reads this never has to endure such a situation, in Jesus' Name. amen.

neil

 2009/10/12 7:01
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Will you defend your family against attack or let them be killed?

In the OT, we find the law saying, "Thou shalt not kill." Although the term râtsach could mean both premeditated, unpremeditated, or accidental killing, its use in the Bible is almost always indicative of premeditated killing which we call murder. Warfare (or protecting your family for that matter) was treated as another thing entirely. Remember, the same God who told Israel not to murder also commanded them to go to war for the land that He was giving them. Not only that, but they were told to leave nothing alive of the people they were replacing.

But we live under the new covenant right? Some would say that the standard is now higher than under the old covenant, as though the old law has been replaced by a more comprehensive law that now judges motive along with action. The book of Hebrews is very plain on the matter. The old covenant has not been amended or revised, it has been abolished. Did you know that the law that said we should not wear clothing that was a blend of two fabrics (i.e. wool/cotton blend) and the law that said we should not eat pork are equally part of the law that says we should not commit murder. The ten commandments do not hold some kind of special status in the law that prevented their abolishment as well. The law is the law, all of it.

So that means we can kill right? What did Paul say in Romans? Since we are free from the law, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin, free from sin, live any longer therein? What is sin? Well, whatsoever is not of faith is sin. All other falls under this category. Disobedience is sin. We are to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. We do this by being obedient to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and to the written Word. If the Holy Spirit prompts us to go speak to a neighbor and we disobey, it is sin unto us. The new covenant is NOT the law plus a further addendum that raises the bar. The New covenant is absolute abolishment and nullification of the old covenant, including the ten commandments. Is the "standard" higher under the new covenant? The problem with this question is that is starts with a faulty premise, that being that we are still trying to be right with God by keeping a "standard" at all. We are to live by the spirit, not by a "standard" of godliness written down in rules, regulations, thou shalts, and thou shalt nots. We walk in the spirit, not in the flesh. Israel could not do that. Their entire relationship with God was bound up in keeping ordinances. Praise God I am free from ordinances.

Praise God that my sin was forgiven and dealt with 2000 years ago. Praise God that 1 John 1:9 applies to me as a believer. Praise God that if I forget to confess a sin, my spirit which has been perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14) does not become "un-born again". Praise God I live under grace.

God has given me a family and ordained that I be the head of that family. In that, I am called to serve my family, teach my family, lead my family, and protect my family. I made a vow on my wedding day to protect my wife. I personally would not think twice about pulling out my firearm and using it to protect my wife or children were a "meth crazed" intruder to come through my door trying to harm them. I am believing God actively that this scenario never happen. I see this as different entirely from my wife giving her life as a martyr from Christ, or myself for that matter.

Hope I have explained my opinion clearly. There is a lot of explanation involved that is a bit difficult to verbalize.


_________________
Travis

 2009/10/12 8:05Profile









 Brother Wayne

Quote:
Hope I have explained my opinion clearly. There is a lot of explanation involved that is a bit difficult to verbalize.



I understand completely. That is sometimes the conundrum of trying to communicate the Leading of the Spirit using words over this medium, which is not face to face.

You have led me to re-read Hebrews this very day, (I'm in Ezra right now, but I should desire to search out Hebrews with my heart, I seem to recall Jesus speaking of not abolishing the "Law", but I am going from memory of Scripture)...so I thank you and bless you, for encouraging me to re-read this tremendous Book, the Epistle to the Hebrews, and listening to the Spirit.

Three words come to mind, "Law", "Covenant" and "Vine"........."Vine" representing Faith, Fear and Love of God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Those three Words are important, to me. It's just grievous that a wall of division has been "built" between the people of my flesh, the Jews, and Gentile followers of Messiah.
Its just grievous (to me) that walls of division have been built between Gentile followers of Jesus, vis-a-vis "demoninations"......its just grievous to me, that other "churches" have hewn to a different "gospel", than the Gospel that was given; I won't mention specific "churches", nor am I implying the dread word, "ecumenical".

All I'm saying are two things, I wish to search Hebrews today, as I judge your post to be a Word, and I cling to the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, and grieve at the worldy reality of this present age.

in Jesus' love, neil

 2009/10/12 8:27
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

much wisdom you have shared brothers, my mind do caught something you shared, we all i believe would like to if nessacary die as a martyr for our faith to Christ, not that we would concider ourselves worthy to such a great honor. But if needed i hope i could be faithful to him.

But if the intruders come and before we can do anything they would say i am here to kill you for your faith in Christ, would we lower our firearm then and let them kill our families?

i know this is kind of ignorant question, and maybe should not be asked? but i find the whole starting question to be somewhat fussy when we start out with a "what if". Anyway, to me it seem strange we would not do any resistance when they kill us for the Lord but if any other reason we would.

Cant really phrase it that well, it just dont sit quite right in my spirit. But i thank you for sharing your thoughts, i have somethings to ponder.

Gods grace and peace.


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/12 8:43Profile
chapel
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 280


 Re:

Strange how we say we would give our lives without resistance as a martyr for Christ.
Yet we go to war and destroy countless numbers of lives to prevent the possibility of such a thing from ever happening.
Just a thought,

lee



_________________
Lee Chapel

 2009/10/12 9:04Profile









 Re:

A man of God would protect his wife and children. Period. No need for discussion.

The only exception I would entertain would be if they were being persecuted for their faith. In this country tho... rarely does that happen.

This question, I believe, only gets asked on here to spark more debate. Debate for the sake of debate is a sin, according to scripture. (Unfortunately we all, including myself, get caught up in it easily)

And it's easy for people who have never been in such a situation to sit on their computers and wax on and on about it... thats called a "waste of time".

Krispy

 2009/10/12 9:09









 Re:

Krispy writes..

"This question, I believe, only gets asked on here to spark more debate. Debate for the sake of debate is a sin, according to scripture"

Amen brother, I totaly agree. Also, its a fear based question and scenario.The Lord has not given us a Spirit of fear........Frank

 2009/10/12 9:50





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