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trueblue
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 Question on the fire video ??

Nate Pfeil in the fire video made comment that Christians will find themselves in hell..could someone clarify to me where in scripture that born again belivers will be absent from the body present with the devil???

 2009/10/6 5:04Profile
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 Re: Question on the fire video ??

Just so everyone knows he is reffering to this video:

[b]The Fire by Nate Pfeil[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=1415

I personally see many scriptures that warn against losing your salvation. This does not mean our salvation is not secure. But it is there to put fear in our hearts and cling to Christ.


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 2009/10/6 5:16Profile
trueblue
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 Re:

To be honest we are either fully secured or never secured.

 2009/10/6 5:25Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

i like what A.W Tozer said, that we are on parole (unsure of spelling that), that we are forgiven and secure in him, but if we break the "contract" we break the parole so to speak, then there is no security.

There is security as long as we abide in Christ, the only place that will abide forever is HIM. So if we wish to have eternal security, let us be in HIM, doing his will always in the very smallest of things in our life. I guess it depends upon how we interpret scripture, but any interpretation that do away with mans responsibility or Gods sovereignty is not a correct interpretation when seeing the sum of all scriptures. If i meet a carnal and worldly believer I will not quote security verses to that brother, i will quote verses that say there is no security for him outside Christ, if i meet a believer that has doubts and fears that are to such a degree it is not healthy and not in a way God wants us to live, i will quote security verses and assure that person what God has said.


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 2009/10/6 6:31Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
Just so everyone knows he is reffering to this video:

[b]The Fire by Nate Pfeil[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=1415

I personally see many scriptures that warn against losing your salvation. This does not mean our salvation is not secure. But it is there to put fear in our hearts and cling to Christ.




Its either secure or not secure? Which is it? I know that there are scriptures that testify to losing your salvation, but Christ either has us or He doesn't. If my son becomes reckless and disobeys me...he is still my son.

 2009/10/6 7:09Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i like what A.W Tozer said, that we are on parole (unsure of spelling that), that we are forgiven and secure in him, but if we break the "contract" we break the parole so to speak, then there is no security.

There is security as long as we abide in Christ, the only place that will abide forever is HIM. So if we wish to have eternal security, let us be in HIM, doing his will always in the very smallest of things in our life. I guess it depends upon how we interpret scripture, but any interpretation that do away with mans responsibility or Gods sovereignty is not a correct interpretation when seeing the sum of all scriptures. If i meet a carnal and worldly believer I will not quote security verses to that brother, i will quote verses that say there is no security for him outside Christ, if i meet a believer that has doubts and fears that are to such a degree it is not healthy and not in a way God wants us to live, i will quote security verses and assure that person what God has said.




I agree we have to abide in Him...But my abiding is nothing to do whether He will save me. My salvation is solely dependent on Christ.

"There is security as long as we abide in Christ" we might feel secure by this, but does Christ say anywhere that you have to abide in Me to be saved and remain saved? I think we put to much confidence in what we are doing than the sheer confidence in Jesus Christ.

add to this later...running late sorry

Blessings
:-)

 2009/10/6 7:14Profile
trueblue
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 Re: Question on the fire video ??

Rom 8:30 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified".

Are Christians glorified (future tense) or not??..which is it?

 2009/10/6 7:36Profile
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Quote:
Its either secure or not secure? Which is it?


Personally I find it sad that we have this attitude. Who are we to put our questions to God, if His scriptures state the possibility of falling then we must accept it, also if God's scriptures say we are secure as we abide and trust (believe) in Christ then we should believe it also.

I would be wary of demanding a answer from scripture that pleases our logic when Scripture testifies against worldly wisdom and is a wisdom that is from above.

Take Heed. Oh may we catch the sense of those words in scripture.


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 2009/10/6 8:08Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i like what A.W Tozer said, that we are on parole (unsure of spelling that), that we are forgiven and secure in him, but if we break the "contract" we break the parole so to speak, then there is no security.

So are we suggesting here that eternal security is based on ME abiding in him..so its me that keeps His salvation and not His salvation that keeps me?

 2009/10/6 8:23Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

Quote:

trueblue wrote:

hmmhmm wrote:


So are we suggesting here that eternal security is based on ME abiding in him..so its me that keeps His salvation and not His salvation that keeps me?




no i am not suggesting, scripture says:

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



this passage as i understand it is for those who follow Christ, they are saved, without HIM they can do nothing, so it says, yet in the same breath he also says: to the same ones one must think it is... he says

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


what does the words IF mean? now since this thread is drifting towards unwanted territory, i suggest we should ask the Lord instead, myself have come to peace with there is no security outside Christ, i believe as in any relationship its a "duet" :-) but its a special duet, where only one can get the glory, he has done all for me, he does all in me, and everything is through faith, yet he has done it in such a way i can participate and make my decisions. I can decide to live wholly for the kingdom of God, burn out for him, sacrifice my life for him, through his enabling grace, or i can just live my life as i want, i can chose that. And personally after much study, and searching the word my conclusion so far is, there is no such thing as eternal security if not eternally abiding in him through faith. of course i can be wrong, i have been before, but so far this is my conviction.

Now i withdraw and pray we would all abide through his grace , God bless


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