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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Genesis 25:18

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Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Genesis 25:18

Does anyone know why this verse is so different in different versions:

NIV - His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.

NASB - They settled from Havilah to Shur which is east of Egypt as one goes toward Assyria; he settled in defiance of all his relatives.

KJV - And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

ESV - They settled from Havilah to Shur, which is opposite Egypt in the direction of Assyria. He settled over against all his kinsmen.

DARBY - And they dwelt from Havilah to Shur, which is opposite to Egypt, as one goes towards Assyria. He settled before the face of all his brethren.

YLT - and they tabernacle from Havilah unto Shur, which [is] before Egypt, in [thy] going towards Asshur; in the presence of all his brethren hath he fallen.

AMP - And [Ishmael's sons] dwelt from Havilah to Shur, which is before Egypt in the direction of Assyria. [Ishmael] dwelt close [to the lands] of all his brethren.


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Mark Nash

 2004/9/15 13:05Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re: Genesis 25:18

Hope the following helps, taken from the footnote of the NET bible:

[i]Heb[/i] "upon the face of all his brothers." This last expression, obviously alluding to the earlier oracle about Ishmael (Gen 16:12), could mean that the descendants of Ishmael lived in hostility to others or that they lived in a territory that was opposite the lands of their relatives. While there is some ambiguity about the meaning, the line probably does give a hint of the Ishmaelite-Israelite conflicts to come.

Also, the word often translated as "settled" meant literally in Hebrew, "fell".


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Sam

 2004/9/15 14:01Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Genesis 25:18

I think the problem stems from the preposition
Strongs H5921
על
‛al
al
Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.

The interpretations are ringing the changes on whether the preposition means opposite/against in the sense of spacial location or fraternal conflict. You pays your money and takes your choice. ;-) The ASV which is very reliable in the OT has And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria. He abode over against all his brethren. (Gen 25:18 ASV) The ASV almost certainly has in mind the original prophecy relating to Ishmael;And he shall be as a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his brethren. (Gen 16:12 ASV) and here again we have the ambiguity regarding location or conflict although from the earlier part of the verse conflict seems the more likely.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/9/15 15:25Profile





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