SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 Next Page )
PosterThread
chapel
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 280


 Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Is Christianity really a violent religion? And is Islam really a peaceful religion?

By Dan Wiesner

Within the Muslim foundational religious text, the Qu'ran, and in overall Muslim belief is the idea and claim that the religion of Islam is the final revelation on top of Judaism and Christianity. The foundational text of Christianity is the Bible consisting of two main parts: the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT). The Old Testament is the "testimony" or record of the events of creation and the worldwide flood and then mostly a historical record of the people commonly known as the Jews (their religion is called Judaism). The NT is the "testimony" or record of the life and words of Jesus Christ and the first Christians. The OT is a revelation of the mind of God to a particular people and nation on earth, called the Jews. The NT is a revelation of God in the person of Jesus Christ to the whole world. These Testaments together make up the voice of God calling the race of humans back to a relationship with Him, having been separated and alienated from Him through our sin. The Qur'an (which came about 600 AD, around 600 years after Christ and the NT) declares itself to be the final revelation of the OT and the NT by the prophet Muhammad to sum up and clarify the two previous revelations.

While there are several problems with this claim of Islam, we intend to present what is ultimately a central belief, commandment, and doctrine of Islam effecting practical life that runs totally contrary to the core of Christianity. Given the times and current events, this point is extremely relevant. Christianity claims in its religious text and tradition, to be the final revelation of the Covenant between God and the Jews. Jesus and His early followers as it is recorded in the NT, revealed the purpose of God in choosing the Jews on the way to revealing Himself to all nations. The New Testament of Jesus Christ is the contract of covenant between God and the Jews and all nations, kindreds, and tribes. The NT declares through prophecy (or knowledge given from God of future events) the end of all things seen and the coming of the eternal kingdom of God (i.e. Heaven). The record plainly leaves no room for another "final" revelation. It is written in the account about the end of all things in the NT (called the book of Revelation), that if anyone adds to or takes away from this book, the plagues that are testified of in the book of Revelation will be added to that person. Do the Qur'an and Islam do this? And if so, how?

The hope of the writer here is to declare the excellency of the New Covenant or Testament of the Gospel of Jesus Christ over the claims of the Qur'an and Islam. The major point to be looked at is the commandments to the believers of the respective religions are to obey in regard to violence, self-defense, executing justice (with physical force), and physical force in general.

From an obvious simple reading of the verses in the Qur'an in their contexts, one can see that Islam is not the inherently peaceful religion that was depicted in the media by its non-terrorist advocates in response to the 9-11 incident. One of the saddest things about the event is that from Islam's foundation, and believed to be God-inspired text, there is justification for such behavior. While some would argue that the Qur'an only gives justification for self-defense or engagement in what has been called "just war," the author will present verses from the Qur'an for the reader to judge for him or her self. Even if we look at the Qur'an as only giving justification for self-defense or just war, we can still show how this contradicts the Gospel of Jesus Christ and bring forth the excellency of Christ's commands and thus how God will judge our soul in the end of all things.

One thing to note is that earlier in the Qur'an or early in Muhammad's revelation of the Qur'an, there are verses stated about tolerance and peacefulness. Muslims have told the author that this is true: Islam stated as non-violent and tolerant, and later it had to respond to its physical attackers, its non-violent subverters, and those who would not submit to its standards and rules. This response is not just opposite to the commanded Christian response, but such a response is motivated by theology and purported revelation of future events totally opposed and contrary to Christianity. This is the great warning and indignation that has been the impetus for the author's writing.

Something initially must be said about the Holy Bible and particularly the New Testament--the record of the words and life and Jesus and the first Christians. This is the record or measure, the blue print of what a Christian is to believe, how to behave, and for what the collective whole of Christianity is to look like. It is an objective measure in that it is unchanged from when it was revealed to men by God and thus committed to writing. (The author would like to provide historical and archaeological supporting evidence for this claim upon request.) As the NT is composed of certain letters and accounts that have been chosen and confirmed by God to be inspired by Him, it is closed to addition and subtraction. Its objective is that one can take this measure and line it up to a church or to someone who professes to believe in Jesus and see if what they are saying and doing coincide or are the same. The importance a Christian should hold in the Bible is paramount in this world of many religions and beliefs, particularly amongst those that call themselves Christians.

Now you may be wondering what is all this about self-defense and war, etc. in Christianity that is so different from Islam. Again, contrary to popular opinion and practice, and based solely on the foundational religious text of Christianity, there is not one single verse that would allow a true Christian to do violence to another person under any circumstance. (The author would greatly desire to show why few that call themselves Christians have obeyed these commands of Jesus in the NT and to also relay information on the righteous few that have obeyed these throughout history. It would be helpful for the reader to know what light TRUE Christianity sheds on the "Crusades" and "Inquisitions.") Again, there are absolutely no verses permitting Christians to harm another (individually or collectively). There are, however, many verses against physically harming another. Moreover, Jesus only permitted only type of self-defense for His followers--to flee, or run away. You may think this is cowardly in the sight of men, but it is righteous, holy, and necessary in the sight of God.

Recently, the author has even heard Muslims saying that Islam and the Qur'an have the same principles of "just war" and self-defense as Christianity. Let us see what the text says.

Time and space would not permit an exhaustive explanation of the difference between the Old and New Covenants that make up the whole Christian Bible. There are differences between the Testaments in what is commanded pertaining to physical force. It should, however, be stated that while there are differences, these Testaments are not contrary to one another, but the first leads into or is fulfilled by the last. All who truly believe in God after what is declared in the New, as will become clear. Within the text of the OT, the coming of the New is proclaimed by the prophets. Jeremiah prophesied that the days would come when God would make a new covenant, not as He made with the fathers of the nation of Israel in the days of old, but the He would give them new hearts, a change in their inward parts. (Please see Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the OT)

Furthermore, many prophecies are written in the OT of how this new covenant would come about. They generally are pictures, images, and descriptions of the herald of the New Covenant. This herald or messenger is known as the "anointed one," or messiah, savior, redeemer, or eternal king. This Messiah is ultimately the embodiment of the New Covenant. Isaiah prophesied in the voice of God, "behold my servant, my elect ... my spirit is upon Him ... I give you for a covenant of the people, a light of the Gentiles..." or non-Jewish people. It says that He would bring the truth to the Jews and non-Jewish peoples. It says, "New things I declare ... to open the eyes of the blind, to bring the prisoners out of prison ... who will give ear to this ... who will hearken and hear for the time to come?" (Please see Isaiah 42:1-9, 23 in the OT)

Isaiah further identifies this herald of the New Covenant, calling Him "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace," and of Him also, "unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: the government shall be upon His shoulders ... of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice ... for ever." (Isaiah 9:6-7) (The author would greatly desire to present more OT and NT verses about the deity of the Messiah.)

The New Testament is the record of this "elect" or "Chosen one" having come and descriptions of what His kingdom, government, and covenant is life. Let us consider His kingdom and the law of His kingdom compared to verses of the kingdom declared in the Muslim Qur'an.

In this following core teaching of Jesus the Messiah or Christ, once can see the excellency of the New Covenant compared to the Old, as well as specific commandments for His followers to obey pertaining to killing and retribution of wrong done to oneself:

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment ...
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right check, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coast, let him have thy cloak also. (Matthew 5:21-22, 38-39)

Continued:


_________________
Lee Chapel

 2009/9/13 15:44Profile
NoWhining
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 67
East Texas

 Re: Will You Kill or Be Killed?

I'm 57 yo, and raised in a Pentecostal church most of my life. I have never heard anyone teach the principals that Christ gave us in Matthew 5, 6, and 7.

Thanks for the article and am looking for the second page. Don


_________________
Don

 2009/9/13 20:53Profile









 Re: Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Chapel,

You have been posting what appears to be a strictly non resistence stance for those who claim the name of Christ.

My question to you is this.
Christians who are in governement or military roles. If they kill or authorize others to kill, are they then not christians and or are they judged as murders by God? If murders by God then no murderer has a place in the kingdom, yes? no?

I ask you this cuz the stance you are taking appears to logicaly move to believe that christians in Government or military are not real christians.

chow.

 2009/9/13 21:14









 Re: Will You Kill or Be Killed?



Thank you Brother Chapel.

Much needed in these last days.
Also looking forward to Pt. 2.

 2009/9/13 21:31









 Re:

HI thingsabove......what does the Word of God say? I am assumeing that you have read the New Testemant? Its all in there. Now some say that what Jesus taught was not practical. Others say that we can lay aside the teachings of Jesus if we serve in the military of governmnet. My only question would be, where does it teach that in the NT? Where does Jesus give us these clauses? "The just war," theory is man's theory and any wisdom of man is just that. The world is constantly changing and has been since Jesus walked this earth, but the Word of God remains unchanged, and God never changes. Now, if this was a typical debate, someone is going to mention Hitler and WW11. It is a fact that most of the German soldiers were professing Christians, as were the Brits and the French and the Americans and the Italians, not to mention the Aussies and all of the countries of the lowlands. Now imagine that the mad authors of wars had not the professing Christians to call on to fight their wars, what would they do? There was a famous incident in the first world war on Christmas of the first year of the war. Somehow the troops got out of their trenches and came together, sang hymns, played soccer and showed each other pictures of their loved ones. It culminated in a religious service. Now when the superiors heard about this all hell broke loose. Men were refusing to fire on their "enemies." The pastor that held the service was sent back to Scotland, and other men had to be brought in to shoot one of the other side and start it of again. Well was it said in those days that the men were "lions led by donkeys." The horror of one Christian blowing out the brains of another, because they happened to have been born in different countries boggles the mind and totally defies all of the NT teachings of Christ. Something to consider..........Frank

 2009/9/14 0:59
chapel
Member



Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 280


 Re: Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Will You Kill or Be Killed?

Is Christianity really a violent religion? And is Islam really a peaceful religion?

By Dan Wiesner

Continued:

Let us now consider some of the teachings of the Qur'an:
2:190 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits,
2:194 Fighting in the sacred month is for aggression committed in the sacred month, and for all violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with them that fear him.

The previous statement in 2:194 of the Qur'an is the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. Jesus said, "It has been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, BUT I SAY unto you ..." With these previously mentioned verses in mind, the next will further show how Christ commanded His disciples to respond to enemies, persecutors (physical or otherwise).

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, but hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you love your enemies, bless them that curse you, pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven, for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth his rain upon the just and the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans (sinners) do the same? 48 Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:43-48)

Consider here as well the only means by which Christ permitted His followers to defend themselves:
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. (Matthew 10:22-23)

What does the Qur'an say about persecution and whether it permits its followers to kill?
2:191 And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
2:193 Fight them until there is no more persecution, and until religion (worship) is acknowledged to be for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression (assault) except against the oppressors.
9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful and who don't adopt the religion of truth (i.e., Islam) from those who were given the scripture, fight until they give tax, willingly while they are humbled.

If it is not apparent by now that Islam puts forth a doctrine contrary to Christianity, the author will quote more of what the NT says. In the following verses, Christ reveals a completely different God and a completely different future and kingdom than what the preceding Qur'anic verses presented. Jesus said:
9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matthew 5:9-12)

And not just Jesus, but the Apostle Paul said, 14Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not... 17Recompense to no man evil for evil... 18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:14,17,18-21)

And also the Apostle Peter: 12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. (1 Peter 4:12-16)

So we can see that Christ and the Apostles Peter and Paul definitely didn't say that killing is better than persecution, but on the contrary, the followers of Jesus are explicitly forewarned and encouraged to joyfully accept the lot of suffering persecution for Christ's sake since it shall yield a blessing! They said not to do evil or violence to any man, even if he's done evil to you first!

Islam and Christianity do have in common the intent (or commandment) to propagate. And with the intent to propagate would come the need to defend against the resistance to propagation. Paul spoke wisely by God's Spirit to comfort the early Christians, "you can do nothing against the truth." (1 Corinthians 13:8) It is manifest that Christ and His ways are the truth, in that only God can increase a group of people that are continually being killed. The human mind does not comprehend nor desire this. Surely the early Christians walked in obedience to these commands through much of their own bloodshed. An early Christian writer from the late 100s (who also believed that Christians were to abstain from violence and military service) said, and thus summarized the first two and half centuries of Christianity, "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church."

Jesus Christ told the truth about this life and things to come, and what is required of man to stand aright with and be reconciled to God. Things that run contrary to this or take away from it are lies. The author has found a great wisdom in God to send such a one as His Son, with meekness, gentleness, and love to bright the truth -- the truth that can set a person free from sin and death or if one rejects it, condemns him or her to a most fearful reality. Christ's truth is proclaimed by His followers without compromise, with utter boldness, yet in the meekness and love and gentleness with which He walked. Persuasion by violence of force has no place in Christ's commands to spread His covenant nor would that type of persuasion be coherent with God's desire in the Gospel message. "Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17) If a man is forced to partake, his heart, will, and all is not in the partaking. His heart remains unchanged.

Man will have to use violence to promote man's plan. In this sin-corrupted world, God could use, has used, and does use (but never by the hands of Christians) war and violence to bring forth His will and plan of reconciliation, just as God uses all events and decisions in time and history to fulfill His plan while allowing for free will. He used war with the Jews in the Old Testament times, but God's fullest intent was, in His timing, to make manifest the most excellent way. With the coming of God's only begotten Son came a new and greater understanding and responsibility for those who will truly follow God. Indeed, "it has been said of old," God once gave the blueprint for an earthly, temporal kingdom (as a shadow or foreshadowing of the heavenly, eternal kingdom to come), then gave Christ as the king of the eternal kingdom, with its order and statutes. For Muhammad to come 600 years later after Christ and put forth a sort of Old Testament place using the typical human means of strength, wisdom, and might is moving backwards. It is reported that the Qur'an and the doctrine of Islam, which was to be the culminating revelation on top of Judaism and Christianity, was given to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel. Paul aptly warned us 600 years prior, "if we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:9) Again, it was also prophesied by the LORD ahead of time in the OT by the prophet Zechariah, "Not by might (or force), nor by power, but by my Spirit." (Zechariah 4:6) One can see that in the most excellent way, God proclaims His truth on earth, not by those who kill, but rather by those who are killed, who do not resist evil but are like sheep led to the slaughter, as the Savior, Jesus Christ was.

Final note: some may say the verses quoted from the Qur'an here only justify reactive or self-defense type violence or war. While we have seen that Christ and the apostles did not permit even that, let us consider a few more verses from the Qur'an that appear to be proactive, or command violence in the absence of any previous attack, or command violent reaction to non-violent propagation of Christianity or non-Muslim beliefs:

5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
5:36 Surely those who disbelieve, even if they had what is in the earth, all of it, and the like of it with it, that they might ransom themselves with it from the punishment of the day of resurrection, it shall not be accepted from them, and they shall have a painful punishment.
2:244 ... fight in the cause of Allah
47:4 ...when you meet the unbelievers smite at their necks...
9:5 So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,
9:12 And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.
9:14 Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
4:34 ...and those [women] on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;

May one be so encouraged by your God-given ability to reason and by the provocation of your own conscience to consider these things from an honest heart. The author encourages all to look at the context of verses from the Qur'an and Bible.

Bible quotes are taken from the King James Version. Qur'an quotes from Holy Qur'an, translated by M.H. Shakir and published by Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., 1983.
*************************************************


_________________
Lee Chapel

 2009/9/14 4:37Profile









 Re:

It's not that hard. Chapel and now Frank. Please think about and answer my direct question I asked previously.

I have also posted my bigger position on other threads. I will do it again if need be.


However I am asking you to answer specificaly my previous question.

Just answer the question.

 2009/9/14 6:50
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Marching to Zion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_Hu1hcsa4

Did the Holocaust Really Happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBA2zp992c


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/9/14 8:34Profile









 Re:

HI thingsabove, I did answer your question. Your follow up question seems to lack some civility which is not good for a genuine discussion, but perhaps I read you wrong. My answer was, obey the Scriptures. That may not be complicated enough for some, but I just repeat, obey the commands of Jesus.

I like hmmmmm's reply, I find it to be balanced. One thing to add to hmmmmm's point. Not only did the Apostles and the discpiles not join Nero's army, which perhaps anyone could understand , they did not join in the defence of Israel which, given the logic of many of today's Christians would be almost impossible to understand. Just think about this for a second. We in the West, whether we come from America or Europe, perhaps belong to contries that , as an actual entity have been around for maybe 1000-1500 years. The Jewish people had a culture, at the time of Christ, which spanned almost 2500 years. Their identity was completely encapsulated in who they were as a nation and as a people. When the final days of their existance came in 70ad when they would cease to be a nation for almost 2000 years, that would be the time, one would imagine, if one was going to fight for their country, it would be then? Did you know that in that very year most of the Apostles were martyred, killed, not in a war to save their State, but in a war against our true enemy, the forces of darkness that lie behind all wars and bitterness and hatred. Now, given their example, and the fact that not one of these Apostles fought in the war to save their own country from anhilliation, but fought and died in a more brutal war, the war that their Commander in Chief had called them to, what war should we fight in? What war have we been called to? We have been bought with a price, our lives, as Christians are no longer ours, we follow the commands of our Lord and Saviour Jesus, its that simple. Do what He says, go where He tells you to go and as long as that falls within the boundaries of Scriptures, one day you will hear these words "Well done good and faithful servant." ...........Frank

 2009/9/14 9:27
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2004


 Re: U.S. Militarism and the christian

To all saints,

My emphasis above is 'to all saints', yet my appeal is to those who'd consider themselves to be of the "reformed faith" as part of what follows is from a "reformed" document.

I'd also appeal to any who may be of a zionistic (Zionism) mindset, which would include many who hold to Dispensationalism. They may go under many names but some which come to mind are those of the "moral majority" or who fight under the banner of "God and Country". These often believe in a "Christian America".

The sixth commandment

EXOD. 20:13 Thou shalt not kill
DEUT. 5:17 Thou shalt not kill

From the "Heidelberg Catechsim "
Approved January 1563

Question 105

What does God require in the sixth commandment?

Answer 105

That neither in thoughts, nor words, nor gestures, much less in deeds, I dishonour, hate, wound, or kill my neighbour, by myself or by another: (Matt.5:21,22; Matt.26:52; Gen.9:6) but that I lay aside all desire of revenge: (Eph.4:26; Rom.12:19; Matt.5:25; Matt.18:35) also, that I hurt not myself, nor wilfully expose myself to any danger. (Rom.13:14; Col.2:23; Matt.4:7) Wherefore also the magistrate is armed with the sword, to prevent murder. (Gen.9:6; Exod.21:14; Matt.26:52; Rom.13:4)

Question 106

But this commandment seems only to speak of murder?

Answer 106

In forbidding murder, God teaches us, that he abhors the causes thereof, such as envy, (Prov.14:30; Rom.1:29) hatred, (1 John 2:9,11) anger, (James 1:20; Gal.5:19,21) and desire of revenge; and that he accounts all these as murder. (1 John 3:15)

Question 107

But is it enough that we do not kill any man in the manner mentioned above?

Answer 107

No: for when God forbids envy, hatred, and anger, he commands us to love our neighbour as ourselves; (Matt.7:12; Matt.22:39; Rom.12:10) to show patience, peace, meekness, mercy, and all kindness, towards him, (Eph.4:2; Gal.6:1,2; Matt.5:5,7,9; Rom.12:18; Luke 6:36; 1 Pet.3:8; Col.3:12; Rom.12:10,15) and prevent his hurt as much as in us lies; (Exod.23:5) and that we do good, even to our enemies. (Matt.5:44,45; Rom.12:20,21)

Question 101

May we then swear religiously by the name of God?

Answer 101

Yes: either when the magistrates demand it of the subjects; or when necessity requires us thereby to confirm a fidelity and truth to the glory of God, and the safety of our neighbour: for such an oath is founded on God's word, (Deut.6:13; Deut.10:20; Isa.48:1; Heb.6:16) and therefore was justly used by the saints, both in the Old and New Testament. (Gen.21:24; Gen.31:53,54; Jos.9:15,19; 1 Sam.24:22; 2 Sam.3:35; 1 Kin.1:28-30; Rom.1:9; 2 Cor.1:23)

To question and answer #101 I'd add the following:

DD FORM 4/1 and 4/2 are authentic government documents which all are required to swear to and sign when contracting with any branch of the military for the U.S Government. These forms may be found online in their entirety if anyone is interested.

All enlistees before their acceptance into the U.S. military(any branch) are required to make/take an oath of allegiance to the state and its officers with their signature upon said document.

Here are some of the exact words which are written in said document, I quote:

"FOR ALL ENLISTEES OR REENLISTEES: Many laws,
regulations, and military customs will govern my
conduct and require me to do things a civilian does not have to do. The following statements are not promises or guarantees of any kind. They explain some of the present laws affecting the Armed Forces which I cannot change but which Congress can change at any time.

My enlistment is more than an employment
agreement. As a member of the Armed Forces of the
United States, I will be:

Required to obey all lawful orders and perform all
assigned duties...Required upon order to serve in combat or other hazardous situations.

Laws and regulataions that govern military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may affect my status, pay, allowances,benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/reenlistment document.In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends,unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of the United States.

I, (NAME) , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of
Military Justice.
So help me God.

I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE CAREFULLY READ THIS DOCUMENT.ANY QUESTIONS I HAD WERE EXPLAINED TO MY SATISFACTION.

SIGNATURE OF ENLISTEE/REENLISTEE
DATE SIGNED

ENLISTMENT/REENLISTMENT OFFICER CERTIFICATION

The above oath was administered, subscribed, and
duly sworn to (or affirmed) before me this date."

The truth is that the christian is not as those who cried,"We have no King but Caesar",who had Christ the King crucified. Rather,the christian has no King but Jesus. Consider just these few of the many words in Scripture which address this vital issue of swearing and oath-taking:

Leviticus 19:12: "And you shall not swear by My name falsely, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord."

Matthew 5:33-37:
Again you have heard that it was said to those of old,"You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord." But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem,for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair
white or black. But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No." For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

James 5:12: "But above all, my brethren, do not swear,either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath.But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No," lest you fall into judgment."

Ecclesiastes 5:2 "Do not be rash with your mouth, and let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.For God is in heaven, and you on earth; therefore let your words be few."

Matt. 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

The above ought to be enough to at the least cause one to re-think what the will of God is regarding U.S. military service.

Please meditate upon both the questions and the answers which are given with Scripture references.

Above all hear [heed/obey] God in His Word.

NOTE: I myself do not hold to Anabaptist,Mennonite,Amish or the like,in regard to their doctrine of 'Non-Resistance'.

 2009/9/14 11:17Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy