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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Falling Away, or "Real Christians" Part Deux

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Joined: 2004/3/3
Posts: 54
Fond du Lac, WI

 Falling Away, or "Real Christians" Part Deux

Lets take a look at 2 people: Jane and Bob. They are approached by Ray Comfort on the street, learn how they are breaking God's Law, here the Good News, and break down on the street weeping in repentance. With all their hearts they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

For the next 5 years they joyfully serve the Lord with all their hearts, in Truth and Spirit.

In year 6 Bob falls [i]slightly[/i] away from the Lord. He becomes deathly sick, and even though he still attends church, he begins to believe that the that there are different levels of discipleship. He runs evangelism, and hands out thousands of tracts pushing "easy-believism". His picture of the "real" Jesus is tainted. He is slowly creating a Jesus in his own mind that is more like what the average Joe Pewsitter worships.

Jane, on the other hand, only falls off slightly from the Lord. She is becomes frail with age, and prays less, and now reads the Bible only on occasion. She still loves the Lord, and doesn't believe in "easy" salvation.

On a scale of 1-100, 100 being perfect, Bob is about a 23% true disciple and Jane a 47% true disciple.

What is a real Christian? Are they "real" Christians.

If we come to the Lord, and have honest conversions, but falter in our walk, are we no longer "real" Christians?

[b]If we fall away by our works, or lack of them, then our salvation is lost by our own hands.[/b]

If we are able to fall away, and be considered luke warm, then Jesus doesn't matter. If we can lose salvation by effort, we hold on to it by effort. If our efforts gain or lose salvation, then Christ is not needed.

If we are a true follower, and lose our drive to serve Christ, do we get piled up with those you label as not "real" Christians?

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

So you are a 88% disciple! You are better than the 23% disciple! We all know that none are perfect except Jesus. If the measuring stick is anything less than Jesus, then Jesus doesn't count.

Let us be careful not to be like the Pharisees, judging others. This is the judging the Bible warns us about.

[url=]This post[/url] lays a blanket on "mainstream Christianity" and "easy believism". Woe, Pharisee!

Have you earned favor with the Lord? You are stench in the nostrils of God without Jesus!

Yes, the modern church is on the wrong path. Is this any different from Old Testament times? No! The difference now is that Jesus is the Standard. Let us tread lightly in our judgment.


 2004/9/14 17:58Profile

Joined: 2004/3/3
Posts: 54
Fond du Lac, WI

 Re: Falling Away, or "Real Christians" Part Deux

A common response is: "The person never gave their heart to Jesus in the first place."

Who here among us can give 100% of our hearts to Jesus? None. We give all we can give at the time based on what we know. Not all of us come for perfect unselfish put God first.

So...none of us can give 100% of our hearts for 100% perfect motive.

If I come to Christ with 79% purity, and you 23% purity of heart, who then is a real convert...a real disciple?

Or is Christ the only Standard?

I wish I knew the answers to all these questions, but I don't.

Since none of us are perfect, and Christ is the Way, our salvation can't be based on our works, dedication, devotion, level of discipleship. It is only Christ.

Even though I despise easy-believism, I am torn between what "saved" really means.

No man has ever given his whole heart to Jesus. If Grace is truly Grace, does God welcome the man who gives 10% of his heart when he comes to Jesus? Seems so. Unless predestination is the factor, then all this is a mute point.

Lord help me understand.


 2004/9/14 20:57Profile

Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


Hi Steve,

Your extremely deep thinking cracks me up. First of all, don't think so hard. LOL :) We are never going to understand all of God's ways or how everything works. I have oftened asked these same questions when I have been searching around alot of "information". Just get back to Jesus.

I like to remind myself to just work out my own salvation with fear and trembling and not worry about anyone elses. :) Your quest to do everything the right way equals complexity , don't you think. I am a former perfectionist, so I know the routine. I still struggle at times to find all the answers. But then again i just get back to the simplicity of Jesus and hide myself in Him- and then I am at rest.

Day by day, just following Him is enough for all of us to do. He will honor your heart that seeks so diligently for answers- you have found HIM. That's all you need.

I am posting a cute little poem that I like to look back over as I sometimes get caught up in all the complexity of men's religion. Hope you like it.

Many, many blessings Steve. May you expereince the rest and hope and love of the Father each and every day.

In His perfect love, Chanin


When you can't figure out whether to:
sit at His feet,
walk in a manner worthy of His call,
or run the race with all diligence,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you can't even remember:
the twenty-two characteristics of a good wife or husband,
the seven steps of appeal to authority,
the eight things to do when you are worried,
or the nine ways of love,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When the proof of authority is simply "they say":
"Have faith, just trust; let go and let God",
"Just find the sin and repent",
"Just love; have joy; receive peace, and pray",
and you can't figure out who "they" are,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When some Pastor/Preacher/Teacher/Evangelist/Prophet/Apostle, et al says:
"Hear the Word",
"Read the Word",
"Memorize the Word",
"Study the Word",
"Meditate on the Word",
and you are lost in the middle of Leviticus or Lamentations,
and even Luke is just too much,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you hear:
"It's pre/mid/post/pan/all tribulation",
"Don't take the 'mark'",
"It's 3 times, time and a half,"
and you can't get through the next half hour,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you hear testimonies of others:
raising the dead, praying all night, fasting forty days,
leading thousands to the Lord, memorizing the entire Bible
and you hear it from someone who hasn't done it
and they expect you to do it, and you feel obligated,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you hear:
"Have faith, work hard, repent, conquer,
tithe, give, suffer, evangelize, make disciples,
wait on Him, walk in Him, pick up your cross,
claim your possessions, pray, fast,
and you feel pulled in 16 different directions on a rack,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When it is:
home school, Christian school, public school,
Sunday school, Bible school,
the school of hard knocks, no school.
and the discussion is heating up
and you feel like skipping school all together,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you are getting a multitude of
letters, newsletters, magazines, etc
from 700 CLUB, CBN, TBN, AOG, BOM, CBN,
POAC, WCCF, YFC, YWAM....ABC.....XYZ......
and each of them contains a request and a return envelope:
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you can,t figure out whether to
wash the dishes, do the laundry,
mow the lawn, fix the car or read,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When it is running the car to:
baseball, football, handball, volleyball,
broomball, ballroom dancing,
and everyone is having a ball but you,
and you feel the car is your home and the road leads to nowhere,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you been through the circuit
and you've heard and watched preachers
preach, exercise faith, build ministries, movements, and monuments,
pray, praise, teach on power, signs & wonders,
laugh, cry, dance,
prance, motivate, manipulate,
and you can,t stand any more,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you are asked,
"How's it going at your church, your ministry?"
and you know it really means
"Ask me how it,s going at mine",
and you know you are about to hear about:
increased miracles, money, numbers,
new buildings, broadcasts, converts,
and you feel a failure,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you hear about and go to another conference that promises to "be it":
and you went, listened, prayed, paid, bought the books and tapes,
tried it, and it didn't work, and the guy/girl left town
and you're left wondering why it didn't work; "what,s wrong with me?",
It,s time to get back to Jesus alone...

When you just heard another:
"Thus saith the Lord"; that contradicted the last "word from the Lord",
that was contrary to the previous "the Lord told me",
and you finally get the picture that the Lord's name is being taken in vain,
It's time to get back to Jesus alone...

It is time to hear His voice,
It is time to seek His kingdom,
It is time to simplify,
It is time to love Him with all our soul, heart and strength,
It is time to commune with Him alone in the secret place,
It is time to get back to Jesus alone!


 2004/9/14 21:16Profile

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