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 The Cup Jesus Drank

In Matthew 20:22-23 Jesus told his disciples that they would drink of the cup that He Himself would drink from.

What was the cup that Jesus drank? Because that was the same cup that his disciples drank from. What was the cup that his disciples drank? I think it was a cup of spiritual, mental, and physical agony and pain. Both Jesus and his disciples experienced that.

Some say Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath. That can't be true because the disciples didn't drink the cup of God's wrath. Plus the cup of God's wrath is not empty in Revelation, it is still full! God will pour out the cup of His wrath upon the wicked: Rev. 14:10. Therefore the cup of His wrath has not been emptied.

Also, God still has wrath after the atonement of Christ: (Acts 12:23; Rom. 1:18; Rom. 2:5; Rom. 2:8-9; Col. 3:6; Rev. 6:17; Rev. 14:10, Rev. 14:19, Rev. 15:7; Rev. 16:1) Obviously the wrath of God was not satsified at the atonement!

I think that the atonement makes it possible for God to turn away from His wrath. When a sinner repents and believes, God sets aside His wrath because of the atonement of Christ.

But I don't see how it could be argued that Jesus drank the cup of Gods wrath because He told His disciples they would drink of His cup. And I don't see how it could be said that Jesus satisfied God's wrath since God still has wrath after the atonement.

 2009/9/7 1:15
bible4life
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re: The Cup Jesus Drank


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John Beechy

 2009/9/7 4:29Profile









 Re: The Cup Jesus Drank

Perhaps there is an aspect of [i]self-sacrifice[/i] in drinking the cup that God was holding out to Him in Gethsemane. The baptism, was the baptism into death. Jesus' death carries many significances, not just the wrath of God against sin - the Sin.

The wrath which is to come, may be even worse, as those who will experience it (according to Paul in Rom 1 & 2) 'knew God' but 1:28 And even as [b]they did not like to retain God in[/b] [their] [b]knowledge[/b], God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to [u]do[/u] those things which are not convenient;

One of the marks of a person who is born again (raised from the dead, in Christ), is that they have the power to [u]do[/u] those things which are convenient to God. That is, things through which, and because of their obedience to truth, God comes to them.

 2009/9/8 11:39
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

Quote:
Was Jesus human enough that He was afraid to die? I don't believe He was afraid, because He came down to the earth for this purpose. Why then, did He agonize over this cup?



Was Jesus "human enough"?

I beleive, Jesus was fully 100% human, and tempted on every point just as we are, but made all the right choices. As the Psalms say "At what time I am afraid, I will trust in thee." And he was tempted on ALL POINTS like as we are, yet without sin. That means he had to feel all the emotions what we feel in this body. As it 's also said, he was touched with the feelsings of our infirmaties. The only thing that makes you human is your BODY. If you had another body, you'd just be an angel, i.e superhuman being, and they cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, because they don't have the same physical pain. That is also why some of them are so evil and cruel.

I also don't think that Jesus knew from the moment he was born that he'd have to die. He had to learn and grow just like any man. He had to come to an understanding of himself and his mission from the scriptures.

I think the cup he drank of and the baptism he was baptised with was the truth of the Word of God. He always did God's will, that can be a hard cup to drink from.

Like Jesus we die too, but as living sacrifices, by taking up his cross and dying daily to self, and the sins of the flesh and putting on the Lord Jesus Christ. If you have done any of that, you know how painful it can be, that old man body of the flesh wants to have it's own way.

Who would want to go and be crucified? Bad enough that all you ever did was speak the truth and help people and they hated you for it. Oh but now you have to let them kill you, when you don't have to. When you have the power to avoid all that torture, just call on a few angels, and you're outta here.

And FOR WHAT? For a bunch of vacilating, double minded, complaining, weak humans. And most of them will hate you and betray you in the end.

I work with some kids with behavior problems, and I'm always telling them, that life actually consists 99% of the time of doing things you DON'T want to do. That's life. If they get that figgured out, they can do anything.

God also did not forsake Jesus on the cross, he was just quoting a psalm.

PSL 22

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Matt 27:46 Mark 15:34

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Zech 12:10 John 19:37

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Matt 27:35 John 19:24

19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Heb 2:12

23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Regards





 2009/9/9 6:50Profile
JEdwardOwens
Member



Joined: 2009/9/9
Posts: 2
Louisville, KY

 Re: The Cup Jesus Drank

TrueSavingFaith:

Hello, and greetings from Kentucky. I just wanted to offer a suggestion to point of the final paragraph of your post:

'But I don't see how it could be argued that Jesus drank the cup of Gods wrath because He told His disciples they would drink of His cup. And I don't see how it could be said that Jesus satisfied God's wrath since God still has wrath after the atonement.'

Could it be that God's wrath was satisfied for His chosen, however, those who pass into hell will absorb the holy hatred and wrath of a just God for eternity? I believe the cup is God's wrath. But that does not mean it is ALL of God's wrath. I would suggest it is all of God's wrath against all of those who, past, present and future believe and surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ. Hell is the wrath of God. Also, the physical suffering of Christ are an aspect of God's wrath on the tree, but not the fullest expression. Jesus suffered much more than physical pain on the cross. So we see that physical pain is equated with wrath. The cup spoken of to the disciples does not have to mean the "wrath" of God at all. Just because a cup is mentioned in Scripture in two different places, does not mean that they have to mean the exact same thing.

Thanks for reading and I hope this could possibly provoke some thought. Thanks for you post and may God be with you!


 2009/9/9 7:47Profile
dab
Member



Joined: 2008/8/8
Posts: 50
Kentucky

 Re:

Thanks,JEdwardOwens for graceful words so clearly expressed. My heart rejoiced to be reminded that God's wrath towards us was satisfied at the cross! We can be so arrogant to ever think we can measure anything about God, whether we are talking about His love, or His wrath. Hopefully, we are ever learning that He will never fit into our 'logic.' I suspect that there are 'cups' we do not have a clue about. Does not the prospect of coming to know these things make the life more and more exciting?

Respectfully
David


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David

 2009/9/9 9:06Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

What was in the cup? I don't think it was a what but, WHO? It was you and me and all those that were crucified with Him that are now son's of God.
The sin of the World was in that cup He drank and that includes me, who was poured into His Body that we might reign in Life by sin Himself being nailed to the Cross, that we would live unto the Father through the death of Jesus Christ who is rebirthed in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/9/9 13:58Profile
bible4life
Member



Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

I would highly disagree with what you said the father did not forsake Jesus, Jesus said to confirm psalm 22 that the father had to forsake him at that time on the cross because he bore the sin of the world and our father could not dwell in the presence of sin at all so he turned from him. As isaiah 53 says it pleased the lord to crush him or it pleased the lord to bruise him. It was the lord himself crushing or pouring his wrath out on his son to satisfy himself. For God to be just and keep to his own nature he had to punish our sins but if it wasn't for holy love to bare our sins on the cross it would have came upon us instead. So God to be just still punished sin but on his son instead of us. He still was just but also the justifier of the wicked. Because of his great holy love for his he died for us. So his holy justice is not greater than his holy love for us and his love is not greater than his holy justice, God does not change and every attribute of his is still equal as we see on the cross. For God to let us just go and without his justice being satisfied he would no longer be a just God but no our God is perfect and he demands justice , his justice to be paid.The cross is a perfect example of this.


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John Beechy

 2009/9/9 17:43Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re: The Cup Jesus Drank

this is a very good question , and you are on the right track in saying and seeing that it cannot be the cup of Gods wrath . also i cannot come up with the conclusion it was the baptism into death[ spiritual death] , that was the cup we would drink . most word faithers follow hagin and copeland on this and they are wrong . we were already spiritually dead so why would we need to be baptised into this kind of death ? as the word faithers teach that Jesus had to partake of . I cannot see that Jesus was praying in the Garden to be delivered from the cross !!! that seems proposterous to say !! Jesus in the garden was praying do not let me die here !! while i am in such agonizing travail of soul and sweating drops of blood ! , do not let me die here, let this cup , of the garden exsperience, pass from me , so an angel came and ministered to Him,{ that's my thoughts on that} . Hebrews 5 also says that, Jesus , in the days of His Flesh, offered strong cryings and tears to God , and that God delivered Him OUT OF DEATH because Jesus was heard of God , because He feared God . I propose that the cup is CARRYING THE TRUE CROSS OF CHRIST DAILY . Jesus stripped Himself of all Majesty and Glory and Humbled Himself everyday of His life . He carried the Cross by becoming a man !! it is appointed unto EVERY man to die ONCE . I can see that after He was baptised of John and was led out into the wilderness , by the Holy Spirit that Jesus truely revealed the Ministration and operation and manifestion of God . I think , from all that i know of the bible, and knowing that every piece of scripture fits perfectly with all of it . The cup we Drink of us is the very LIFE OF GOD and the MOTIVE [HEART ] of GOD and not the death of God at all. GOD NEVER DIED !! Jesus gave His flesh and Blood for us , His blood [life] was shed through an Eternal Spirit, and His flesh was broken , Jesus never said that He needed to give His Spirit . so the cup we drink is not spiritual death ,. Jesus poured out His Soul unto death on the cross , not His Spirit . copeland and hagin and many others will tell you otherwise but it is not scriptual . the cup is the losing of our lives to find it , it is the dying to our own ways daily , it is a carrying of the cross daily , it is the overcoming triumphant walk ,of not loving our lives unto death, even if it means dying physically to bring about Gods glory , like stephen and all the apostles did . hope this helps . thanks for your searching ? and for your sound reasonings . God bless , Clint


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Clint Demoret

 2009/9/9 19:22Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

When Jesus looked in the cup, what did He see?

My sin, your sin and the sin of the whole world.

He had to take them into His own body that He might defeat sin and Kill it by His own death and mine with Him, that He might live and bare much fruit. Unless a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it is alone, but if it die it bares much fruit. All the sin that was in that cup was poured into His body and His perfect sinless body is the only body that could contain such vileness and death and suffering, that we might be set free, by His resurrection unto life and salvation for those the Father gave Him.

No wonder He sweat great drops of blood in agony of taking the sin of all time in the whole world into His body that it might be nailed to the Cross for those that are His.

1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Dead to sin with Him. Alive by His life in us, rebirthed in us to become son's of God.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I (Paul) am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, (you, me and all those that have been give Him by the Father)to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is (the resurrected perfectness of every believer) Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Life out of Death, the cup of sin and death and the death of sin by His perfect sinless body nailed to the Tree. The Lamb of God made sin for us that we might live unto God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord, Savior and brother and sisters in the family of God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/9/10 2:59Profile





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