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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The REAL Jesus

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tedlock
Member



Joined: 2004/1/7
Posts: 25
Michigan

 Re: The REAL Jesus

Twelve years ago I said a “sinners prayer” “Jesus come into my heart…” I attended the membership classes at the church where I had been lead to this decision and was taught the doctrines of this specific denomination. When I inquired about whether I could still be cast into hell or not, I was told that God loves me and I could continue to sin and live a reprobate life and that God would not give up on me (like the Father loving and searching for the prodigal son).
I was told: “Let’s just say if your at all concerned about your salvation…your safe”.

THE BIBLE SAYS:

Hebrews 10:26-30 says:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

John 3:35-36 says:
35 “ The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not OBEY the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Is obeying Jesus’ commands optional?

Matt 28:18-20 says:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

We MUST be his Disciples. You cannot just become a regular Christian and one day decide “I want to become a super Christian so I’ll become a disciple”. Jesus said to go make DISCIPLES not converts and teach them to Obey My every command.

I was once shown John 10:26-29
26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 " My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

The person said “see no one will snatch them out of my hand or the Fathers hand” as an argument for Once saved always saved.

If you look at Jesus description of His sheep in verse 27 he said “I know them and they follow me”

1. “I know them” in Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

In verse 23 “I never knew you” to those who practice LAWLESSNESS or walked in disobedience to Jesus commands

2. “and they follow me” How many times has Jesus told us what we need to do if we want to FOLLOW Him?

Matt 4:18-22
18 Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
19 And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."
20 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.
21 Going on from there He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.
22 Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

These guys forsook their lives, occupations and their father to “Follow ME”

Matt 8:19-20
19 Then a scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go."
20 Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think Jesus is promising us financial prosperity if we “Follow Him” Am I willing to Follow Him even if I must lose everything?

Matt 8:21-23
21 Another of the disciples said to Him, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father."
22 But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead."
23 When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him.

Jesus told this Disciple to forsake his dead father and family who would probably be offended at his not coming to bury his father.

In Matt 10:38 Jesus said:
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

In Matt 16:24 Jesus again said:
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Matt 19:20-22
20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

We are promised Rewards in Heaven if we do the works that He tells us to in His name in a way as to not seek the honor of men, if we seek honor from men then Jesus said “he has already received his reward”

Jesus recognized that this man’s IDOL (god) was money and possessions…we MUST give up all our idols if we want to Follow Him

Abraham’s IDOL:. Abraham loved dearly and possessed Isaac. God had Abraham show by sacrificing Isaac that his obedience to God was greater than possessing Isaac. After that Abraham loved him but no longer possessed Isaac.

Luke 14:25-33
25 Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,
26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

WE CANNOT ALLOW OTHERS OR OUR DESIRES TO TURN US FROM OBEYING JESUS

28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
31 "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

WHAT COST IS THERE IN “JUST ASK JESUS TO COME INTO YOUR HEART?”

We need to be His disciples and obey His every command.

Jesus’ Temptation:
Matt 4:3-4
3 And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

We call ourselves “Christians” and say that we stand on God’s word…but do we really know for ourselves what it says? Or have we been allowing others to deceive us?

Matt 7:15-20
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 " Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Their Sheep’s clothing are all the right sounding doctrines. But they bear bad fruit ie: anger problems, neglecting their family for “the Lord’s work” (God has placed our wives and children as higher priority than the church functions), their children leave the faith, divorce, adultery, lust, secret sin, no church discipline, etc.



READ the New Testament for yourselves and get rooted in what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

Have “Quite Time” with the Lord:
1. Come to Him with a clear conscience and a humble heart. (GOD RESISTS THE PROUD)Repent of everything you can think of and ask the Holy Spirit to remind you of anything you may have forgotten.
2. Pray for Him to fill you with the Holy Spirit
3. Pray for the “veil” to be lifted off His Word and to give you revelation from His Word

Let the Holy Spirit teach you 1 John 2:26-29
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
27 As for you, the anointing (HOLY SPIRIT) which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing (HOLY SPIRIT) teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you ABIDE IN HIM.
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Want TRUTH? Let the Holy Spirit teach you, FORSAKEALL and ABIDE IN HIM (Obey what the Holy Spirit teaches you), Obey Jesus and KNOW HIM.


_________________
Jim

 2004/9/15 13:32Profile
Rafiki
Member



Joined: 2004/8/20
Posts: 30
His Hands

 Re:

Correct...

Quote;

I hear your heart speaking, longing for nothing or no one but Jesus. I encourage you my dear brother, keep running this race. We're on the same track !

I don't know how I should explain it, but I recognize a desire for God alone

(My Soul thirst for him as a deep pants for water -- Where can I go from his Spirit, if I make my bed in Heaven he is there, if I make my bed on the Earth he is there -- If i Run away and a Fish Swallos me up, even in the pit of it's stomach he hears my prayers, and saves me) ;-)

 2004/9/15 15:21Profile
Rafiki
Member



Joined: 2004/8/20
Posts: 30
His Hands

 Re:

Yes, and I have some questions -- Please.

Your Quote;“Let’s just say if your at all concerned about your salvation…your safe”.

My question? Jeremiah 24, if you will.
The Lord showed me, and there were two baskets of figs set before the temple of the Lord, after Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoaikim, king of Judah, and the princes of Judah with the craftsmen and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had broght them to Babylon.

One basket had very good figs, like the figs that are first ripe; and the other basket had very bad figs which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

Then the Lord said to me, What do you see Jeremiah? And I said, Figs, the good figs, very good; and the bad, very bad, which cannot be eaten, they are so bad.

Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying

Thus says the Lord, the God of Isreal; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, in the land of the Chaldeans.

For I will set my eys on the for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up.

Then I will give them a heart to know me, and I am the Lord and they shall be My people, anhd I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.

My Question; Could you please break this down for me, is verse...(5) Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, in the land of the Chaldean. (6) For I will set My eyes on them, for good and I will bring them back to this land...

 2004/9/15 16:12Profile
tedlock
Member



Joined: 2004/1/7
Posts: 25
Michigan

 Re:

Brother Rafiki,

My intention with that quote: “Let’s just say if your at all concerned about your salvation…your safe” Was to show that the bible disagrees with it.

1 John Chapter 2 tells us that we must not walk in sin..remember in Matt 5 Jesus said I never knew you...away from Me you who practice lawlessness (lawlessnes = you knowingly disobeyed my commands)

Read 1 John 2

1 ¶ My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 ¶ And by this we know that we have come to KNOW HIM, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, "I have come to KNOW HIM," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 ¶ Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 The one who says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 ¶ I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God abides forever.
18 ¶ Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us.
20 ¶ But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
28 ¶ And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Brother, eternity is a long time! You cannot walk in the deeds of the flesh and inherit the Kingdom of God. You cannot love God and love the things of this world. We need to count the cost and make the decision to forsake all (ambitions, hopes, dreams, family, friends and anything that would have us compromise in being obediant to Jesus's commands), Repent of all our sin (repentance is to make a 180degree turn away from sin and toward obediance to God) and Obey His Commands.
Peter said in Acts 5:32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
So Obey HIM and ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not a one time event, you must seek to be continually filled. Walking in obediance to anything that the Holy Spirit has given you light on and be humble.
Disobediance and pride both will quench the Holy Spirit.

THIS IS BEING "Born again"

Brother don't wait for God to "bring them back to this land..."

Get into the Spirit when you have your "quiet time" and ask for the Holy Spirit to give YOU revelation from the Word.

Peace and Grace brother.
Jim


_________________
Jim

 2004/9/16 21:57Profile
Feargodonly
Member



Joined: 2004/9/17
Posts: 1


 Re:

Amen Brother!

 2004/9/17 10:29Profile





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