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bible4life
Member



Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

Me too have been struggling with the same thing for the past 2 years. I also fell after about a few months after the lord came in my life. I do wonder if their is a difference between a true conversion and a false conversion, and awakened and even a changed heart compared to a truly changed converted heart. I don't really know if you can be awakened without truly being saved or be awakened and still not get saved. I believed on christ but not for salvation or to trust him to save me but to heal me, so my faitrh might have been placed in the wrong thing. I looked at christ as a healer and deliverer. Look to him as your saviour of your soul and sins. Trust him and him only. Jesus Christ, you our justified by your faith. I started thinking about it, God never forsaked Israel completely, or any of the true believers like david, peter, etc. He comes back to his sheep even the lost ones according to scripture.


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John Beechy

 2009/9/2 22:33Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

You reminde me of a few things first you reminde me of the parable of the sower.
Matthew:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say to you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see the things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear the things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and immediately with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet he hath not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, forthwith he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that receiveth seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundred fold, some sixty, some thirty.
24 Another parable he proposed to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field:

Next Im reminded of the Prodigal Son.
Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided to them his living.
13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat; and no man gave to him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father have bread enough and to spare, and I am perishing with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said to him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him in health.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in; therefore his father came out, and entreated him.
29 And he answering, said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither have I at any time transgressed thy commandment; and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son had come, who hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said to him, Son, thou art ever with me: and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

So if originally a son, but comes to his mind and decides to go back for mercy, he will find it. But Only God brings this thought to mind, granting Repentance.. next verse.




2Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth:
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Here God clearly grants repentance to those that oppose themselves, and recover out of the snare of the devil.

Quote:Of course, there is one part of the Bible that troubles me to no end, and no matter how many times I pray to have my worry lifted from me, it still bothers me that I may have gone too far and can't ever get back into God's good graces. Of course, that line is the infamous Hebrews 6:4-6.

True, it is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible, he is merciful, and that is why he is longsuffering, suffering us to repent and come back to him.
If he calls us, and we hear that call, we come to him and tell him our troubles and ask him to forgive us.

In your case, only God in my opinion is putting in your heart to get right with Him.
Only you can repent and follow him.
dont worry about if your were saved before, or not, what matters is what are you at this acceptable time going to do, today is the day of salvation.
Turn to Jesus, confess, repent, and believe, and purpose to live for him.
God will hear you.


_________________
howard

 2009/9/3 0:57Profile
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
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Someone who is truly saved can not lose their salvation. The question is not "can someone lose their salvation" but instead should be "was that person truly saved to begin with". Krispy
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Good observation, brother



Yes dear Brothers, quite an observation, and if I may, I would like to compair it to what Jesus said here.

Mat 25:31

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Besides having a literal meaning in that when a brother or sister is hungry, needing phisical food. Thirsty, needing a real glass of water. A stranger who needs lodging or a helping hand. Naked in that they have few clothes to wear. Or sick and in prison, in that we go visit them in the hospital or the prison.

ALL THESE THINGS, also represent how we are to know enough of his Word, that we can feed them the bread of life. Give them to drink of the wather of life. Welcome them and treat them as family in the family of God, when we know them not. Clothe them with the Words, of righteousness,helping them turn from their sins, unto him who called them. Release them from the sickness and prisons of the strongholds of sin and unbelief in their minds, into the glorious liberty of those who truly know and understand the scriptures, the gospel of our dear Lord.

This dear Sister, has found herself to be in these situations, in her heart. Yet you give her no bread of life, you give her no water of life, you share nothing to turn her to righteousness, that will clothe her and bring her out of her prison, from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God.

Why here a sister in the Lord (if truly be that you are brothers) has a heartfelt problem and is asking for wisdom and understanding, and you come up with this "canned" quote, THAT DOES NOTHING, to teach, reprove, convict, encourgage or comfort.

What do you give her? You give her a "CANNED" observation bothers.

"CANNED" in that you got that out of some religious "CAN" of quotes, that get passed on from one person to the next, that don't have a pinch of truth in them. No bread, no water, no clotheing, no deliverance, no salvation.

I can only say what Jesus said, in that every idol word that men shall speak they shall give an account there of in the day of judgment, and that means you two, brothers.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, (Well remember that girl on the internet) Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Quote:
Someone who is truly saved can not lose their salvation. The question is not "can someone lose their salvation" but instead should be "was that person truly saved to begin with". Krispy



You both need to repent for treating this sister like she is not even present, does not matter, and her posts do not have a real human being, beloved of the Lord, on the other end of them.

Let us hope your user name "Krispy", is not prophetic brother.

 2009/9/3 10:13Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
Someone who is truly saved can not lose their salvation. The question is not "can someone lose their salvation" but instead should be "was that person truly saved to begin with". Krispy

Good observation, brother. :-)

Only good to those who hold that doctrine.

Can a saved person be deceived?
Yes.

Can that deception lead to apostasy?
Yes.

Was that person saved?
Yes.

Can a saved person have "no root in himself" come up and be offended when "persecution occurring because of the Word"? (Mat 13:20-21)
Yes.

Can a saved person have the anxiety of this age, and the deceit of riches, choke the Word, and it becomes unfruitful, because of "thornes"? (Mat 13:22)
Yes.

 2009/9/3 10:24Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Job 33:23 "If there is a messenger for him, A mediator, one among a thousand, To show man His uprightness,

Job 33:24 Then He is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down to the Pit; I have found a ransom';

Job 33:25 His flesh shall be young like a child's, He shall return to the days of his youth.

Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

Job 33:27 Then he looks at men and says, 'I have sinned, and perverted [what was] right, And it did not profit me.'

Job 33:28 He will redeem his [fn] soul from going down to the Pit, And his life shall see the light.

Job 33:29 "Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,

Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.


In verse 27 the individual comes to understand that the ways he or she once live for do not profit the individual. Due to experiencing the goodness of God this individual testifies that his or her relationship with the Lord will not allow them to continue in the old ways.

In verse 29, we find that God continues to bring this individual back two or three times during his or her life so that they might be enlightened with the light of life.

But those who continue to disobey will die, for God will give them over to their carnal ways.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/9/3 10:40Profile
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

Beloved Sister in the Lord,

When you first believed you were SEALED, with what is called the holy spirit of promise. You have this gift sealed up inside of you until the day of redemption.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest (TOKEN) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.



The day of redemption, is the day that Jesus comes to gather together all those who are his. At THAT TIME, the seal will be opened, and the Lord will look at what is really in your heart and what you did with your life.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

People do not totally change overnight. Though we have heard stories of this, this is not the "norm". Rather it takes time, and learning of the Word of God, to overcome sin, and learn to walk righteously before him.

We slowly become transformed.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The word transformed is a Greek word which meant metamorphis, as in what a catipillar goes through to become a butterfly. You have issues, sins and contrary thoughts in your mind that you do not even realize.

You have strongholds in your mind, that you do not even realize are there, and again this takes time in learning with the Lord, and living life to overcome them.

2 Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Many Christians do not realize that the moment they believed on Christ, they entered a real WAR. So when the enemy comes along and tempts them and get's them to fall, they are totally unprepared for it. They think they lost their salvation.

But the truth is, you are given and assured of salvation, if you keep coming back to and following Jesus, even though you may fall. A baby has to learn to walk, a baby Christian has to learn to walk with the Lord, and overcome sin. Babies fall, but keep getting up and trying to walk. Even mature adults fall from time to time.

Keep this scripture as the apple of your eye. Listen to it, commit it to heart, and follow it.

John 8:31 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Those Jews, he was talking to, had just finally and initially heard enough of his words, to make the decision to believe on him. But then he told them they must CONTINUE in his Words.

To continue means to live, abide and dwell in his words. By this they would become disciples (disciplined ones), they would eventually come to a knowledge of the truth, and be set free from the sin in their lives.

Being set free from the sin in your life, is not just continuing to sin, and then saying Jesus paid the price for it. Rather being set free from sin, is learning how to overcome sin and QUIT the sin. And it is not living a lifesyle of 'habitual" sin.

We have an enemy, and his main purpose is to tempt and lead us into sin. Part of learning the truth, is also learning about this enemy we have, who so easily temps our old man nature and draws us away into our own particular sins.

But as we learn of Christ, and resist the devil, and the temptation to sin, by putting on his commandments, sayings, and words, we receive faith and power to overcome that sin, and walk in righteousness instead.

God gives you SPACE, and TIME to come to repentance. But do not take that grace for granted, to purposely continue on in your faults. Seek the Word of God, keep your head in the word, and most of all PRAY, that you enter not into temptation, and that God will help you to escape. For as Jesus said: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. So we must watch and pray every day for God's strength and guidence in overcoming these things.

You have not LOST your salvation, you have just begun your salvation. And must now that you have believed work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. You must come to a knowledge of your Lord, by daily reading of the gospels, and spend time with him.

If you sin, which you will, if you confess you sin, he is faithful and just to fogive your sin and clease you from all unrighteousness. But never take him for granted, and never sin presumptuously...as in..."Oh well God will forgive me."

God loves you, and he's given you all the tools and knowledge to be victorious, but it all takes time. Receive his gracious forgivness, and move on to run that race that is set before you, looking unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of your faith.

Here are some more scriptures on this subject to ponder.

2 Cor 4:16 For which cause we faint not; [b]but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.[/b]

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have [b]put off the old man with his deeds;[/b]

Col 3:10 [b]And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:[/b]

You don't do this overnight. And it's not a ever just a DONE DEAL, for any of us. You can ALWAYS go back...ALWAYS. Or you can as some who claim to be "saved", never do it at all, and yet claim they are "born again". These are those who write you good words and fair speaches telling you not to worry about overcoming or quiting sin.

The inward man is renewed according the the knowledge of the Word of God, that we MUST put in DAY by DAY. If we go a few days, we get weak and can sucomb to sin, or fall back into the ways of the old man.

Rom 8:21 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 8:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

rom 8:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Only by staying [b]IN CHRIST, which means to stay in and abide DAILY in his words, by reading and meditating on them, do you receive POWER to obey them.[/b]Then you will not so easily succomb to that old man nature which lies latent within your human body and mind.

Running with you, in the Lord Jesus Christ,
El Harris











NOTHING we ever did BEFORE we came to or believed on Jesus Christ, could make us good enough to receive that holy spirit of promise. Both those who naturally walked very righteously and those who are great sinners, and all those inbetween, are in the same boat, before Him.

ALL must believe on who Jesus Christ was, the son of God and that God raised him from the dead. At that instant of innitial belief,you receive a spiritual cleansing by God through his spirit.

But AFTER this is when your work begins. For regardless of how wicked you may have been before you came to Christ, he now expects you to LEARN to walk worthy of what he has done for you, and called you to.

THIS TAKES TIME! You have habbits and strongholds in your mind, that are contrary to what Jesus Chrsit taught is "right" or "righteous". He will reveal these things to you as you walk through life.

Many times we fall into sin, because there are things in our hearts the Lord is trying to show us, that we need to deal with.

 2009/9/3 11:10Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Dear elharris,

Quote:
Quote: Someone who is truly saved can not lose their salvation. The question is not "can someone lose their salvation" but instead should be "was that person truly saved to begin with".
Krispy

You both need to repent for treating this sister like she is not even present, does not matter, and her posts do not have a real human being, beloved of the Lord, on the other end of them. Let us hope your user name "Krispy", is not prophetic brother.


I think you may have been too quick and too harsh in your judgment and condemnation of Krispy. Though his response to jmooney6 may have been brief, it still is relevant to her question, and I believe that his post was made with the sincere desire to help her overcome her fears. He offered her real hope that she was not lost because she still had to attain the transformation or metamorphosis that you so nicely explained in your last post. This is what many consider the true rebirth, thus their doctrinal stand is once saved (reborn [Jn 3:5-7] or transformed) always saved.

I agree that it is better to also cite the scriptural basis (the meat and drink) for such statements, but we don't know the circumstances under which he made his response. Maybe he was pressed for time and just had to post quickly.

Like you, I have not been an active member of this forum for very long, and I still have to get to know most of the regulars here. But I have read enough of Krispy's posts to be able to say that he is a loving Christian brother, and that his forum name "Krispy" is not prophetic.

 2009/9/3 12:05Profile









 Re:

"You both need to repent for treating this sister like she is not even present, does not matter, and her posts do not have a real human being, beloved of the Lord, on the other end of them.

Let us hope your user name "Krispy", is not prophetic brother." elharris

Is this really necessary? You tell others to repent for acting like someone isn't present and in the same breath you make an implication of someone's eternal salvation. You could have made your point without the last last line which makes you no better than the one's you were chastising to begin with.

 2009/9/3 12:51









 Re:

I orginally posted a response to [b]elharris[/b]... but have decided to remove it. It wasnt bad or anything, but got to reading the responses of others on this forum and was humbled. Thank you, folks.

Love ya, [b]elharris[/b]...

Krispy

 2009/9/3 12:58
jmooney6
Member



Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


 Re:

Dear brothers and sisters,

Before I continue, I just wanted to clarify that I am a fellow brother in Christ, not a sister. :lol: My name is Jim.

Thank you and God bless you all for your loving insights and help! I came as a naked stranger, hungry, thirsty, burdened, and I feel as if my thirst is quenched, hunger is satisfied, and mostly clothed in the Word (the rest which I must read on my own, of course). My burden has become a compelling, as I am compelled more than ever to get into my Bible to gain more spiritual understanding than I ever had.

I'm also starting to come to an understanding of things that really didn't occur to me. For one thing, I was running with my blinders on, being afraid of losing the salvation and love of Jesus because of my sin, seeking answers on Hebrews 6:4-6 everywhere on the net and not in the Bible, even though I started to read it seriously a month ago (which is why I discovered that passage in the first place).

The second is the main problem I have - swearing (not the oath kind) and quickness to anger (not full-blown anger, rather irritation, and not Holy anger either). I felt that if I'm truly in Christ, that this anger problem would go away. True, it produces thorns, and not fruit, and I feel it hinders the relationship I should have with Jesus.

The third thing is, I realized why I fell away originally. I wasn't reading my Bible at all back when I first accepted Christ, being under the foolish thinking "I'll read it when I have some time" rather than "I will make time to read it each day, at minimal 30 minutes if not more, more being better!" What a fool I was! :oops: I also need to pray a lot more fervently as well.

The fourth problem I'm having is my heart. There are times when I feel joy in my heart when reading the Bible or thinking about Him, but sometimes my heart feels like a rock. I'm praying that my heart be melted and be made into good soil, as I don't want it to be rock whose seeds become scorched and withered plants. Why does it feel that way sometimes?

The last problem is finding a way to get through college while making time for reading the Bible and talking to God. I feel that it gets in the way of what's truly important, and that is God.

Any assistance would be greatly welcomed, even just simply pointing me to passages within the Holy Scriptures to help open my eyes even further. :-) You all have been so helpful to me. I know now that God has directed me to a forum that can help me out and has already. God bless you all.

-Jim


_________________
Jim

 2009/9/3 13:38Profile





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