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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : 23 Minutes in Hell?

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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

This wicked generation seeks a sign. Or some garbage that titillates the carnal mind.

No sign will be given except the sign of Jonah.

This junk won't save America from the impending judgment of God.


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Sam Yoon

 2009/10/19 14:17Profile
KathleenP
Member



Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

Brother Chris, I wasn't specifically aiming my response at yourself as I did not get the impression that you yourself were judging Mr. Weiss. Maybe the careless use of words that get thrown around by some makes me nervous because I know that all we speak or say is being recorded, and I am concerned for those don't have great discretion when making replies.

When I look for fruit, it must also be evident in those that speak here. Is this fair to ask saints?

We all had a bad experience with the foolishness of Todd Bentley, and those from the wealth and prosperity sect, but we cannot group all into that category.

Jesus did not say that dreams, visions and miracles would end. The sad thing is; we've seen plenty of the counterfeit.

Maybe it isn't Mr. Weiss, but the sign seekers that are the issue. I did not get the impression that he was desiring to come as a prophet or someone great. He was sincere and we need to be cautious when using harsh words.

He is not leading folks into sin but urging them to repentence.

I truly do not wish to argue. It is not what the Lord has taught us to do. If you feel that he is in error, then that is not something I can convince you to change. I speak this to all that are responding. I just ask that we be extremely careful and also may we use scripture as to why we feel that a certain soul is not of God.

Brethren, in reguards also to God judging this nation, I am so glad that He is not slack as some men count slackness. I have family members that need to be born again and I am so greatful for his patience.

Peace.


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Kathleen

 2009/10/19 18:41Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi KathleenP,

Quote:
When I look for fruit, it must also be evident in those that speak here. Is this fair to ask saints?
....
I did not get the impression that he was desiring to come as a prophet or someone great. He was sincere and we need to be cautious when using harsh words.

He is not leading folks into sin but urging them to repentence.


The only concern with this is that the same thing could be said of MANY of the people who claim to have visited Heaven or Hell...but whose story directly contradicts with the testimony told by Bill Wiese. For instance, the stories told by Dr. Richard Eby and Mary Baxter are in direct contradiction with the story told by Bill Wiese. All of these supposedly show "fruit" in a broad sense of the word. All three of these individuals "urge" others to consider life after death and also "urge" their readers/hearers into repentance. Yet, due to the contradictions, at least two of these individuals are not telling the truth.

Much more importantly, the specific details as described by Bill Wiese cannot be verified by Scriptures. Now, this is not to say that it did not happen. Yet, the tales of individuals who supposedly visited Hell seems to be in contradiction with the Scriptures that I mentioned earlier.
Quote:
I truly do not wish to argue. It is not what the Lord has taught us to do. If you feel that he is in error, then that is not something I can convince you to change. I speak this to all that are responding. I just ask that we be extremely careful and also may we use scripture as to why we feel that a certain soul is not of God.


I certainly understand your concerns. However, there is a difference between "arguing" and sincerely "testing" the words or claims of a mere man. The Bereans were counted as being of more noble character since they searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul was teaching was true. Yet we can't really "test" these stories with Scripture. Why? The Scriptures are decidedly vague in regard to the specific details about Hell (at least, compared with the precise details that Mary Baxter, Richard Eby, Bill Wiese and others have provided).

Do you see the problem with quickly embracing such a story? If the Bereans were considered "noble" for testing Paul's words, I believe that God expects His children to test the claims of others. There is no need to "convince" anyone of such a story that cannot be entirely verified by Scripture.

In fact, I believe that we should not be "convinced" of ANYTHING until it is verified by Scripture. The burden of proof (so to speak) isn't on people to prove his claims as being false, but on believers to verify the truth BEFORE they are willing to embrace such a testimony. So far, I haven't found anything in this story that makes me embrace Bill Wiese's claims. I am certainly not passing judgment on the man himself. His relationship with Christ is, of course, between him and the Lord (and, to a much lesser extent, the people that he preaches to). I would simply urge all believers to "test everything" and only hold onto the good (I Thessalonians 5:21).


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Christopher

 2009/10/19 19:33Profile
KathleenP
Member



Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

Thanks for the comments Chris. I guess the most important thing is.....may none of us come to see how accurate their descriptions of hell are...ever.

Selah


_________________
Kathleen

 2009/10/19 19:58Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Quote:

KathleenP wrote:
Thanks for the comments Chris. I guess the most important thing is.....may none of us come to see how accurate their descriptions of hell are...ever.

Selah



Amen!

:-)


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Christopher

 2009/10/19 20:37Profile
KathleenP
Member



Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

:-)


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Kathleen

 2009/10/19 20:42Profile
kathleen1
Member



Joined: 2004/8/5
Posts: 226


 Re:

As a new Christian in 2001 I read the books by Mary Baxter. I thought them scary, like a horror novel. As I grew and began to mature some in the Word, though I have a long way to go, I began to doubt their validity.

The Bible contradicts this premise(the rich man in hell was told they had Moses and the prophets, if they wouldn't hear them, neither would they believe though one came back from the dead) so I don't believe this was God.

If this guy, or Mary Baxter had actually seen hell, which I do not believe, they would not dare come back and try to make a buck off it. Nor would they be traveling around the country with the same message, meaning, all they really speak about is their 'experience'. There is no spiritual depth or genuine concern for the lost. All they can talk about is their books and experiences when they visit churches, from what I've read and seen in videos on the internet.

I believe if hell were truly opened to the human for a brief moment, they would be so humbled, so frightened, so forever changed, money would mean nothing, reputation would mean nothing, material possessions would be meaningless, souls being saved would mean everything.

Him who helped create hell, (by whom all things were made) set the example of someone who really knew what hell was like because He was there when it was created-He poured out His life for others, knowing in spite of His sacrifice, many would perish. He still did it to make a way to salvation and redemption for those who would come. Man had an out. Jesus suffered greatly to give it to us.

Where is the cross in the lives of these who are making merchandise out of God's people with lies? Maybe they had a bad dream about hell, but Jesus didn't put His vision up for sale. Neither should they. I understand the cost of producing the books-but if it were a genuine testimony, God would foot the bill and the book would not cost so much, if anything, for if you'd really seen hell how could you charge people to know what you saw?


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Kathleen

 2009/10/22 20:29Profile





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