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ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4517


 Re:

Hello...

Of course, I do believe in the reality of Hell and an eternal punishment. I also believe that God could give people a glimpse of such a place. However, there are so many conflicting accounts. Mary Baxter's account differs from the account written in 23 MINUTES IN HELL. This account also differs from the account recorded in Dr. Richard Eby's book, CAUGHT UP INTO PARADISE. Either one is right and the rest is wrong...or they are all wrong.

I have trouble with the account found in the book. It is a narration that seems decidedly extra-Biblical. We can argue that the book will serve to warn people and lead them to Christ...but what if the book is a lie? What if it is a pure lie or exaggeration written by a man who has a motive to keep people from Hell? Mary Baxter's A DIVINE REVELATION OF HELL is filled with strong detail that might warn people about the result of dying without Christ -- but her book is a direct contradiction of Bill Weise's 24 MINUTES IN HELL.

The Scriptures are clear that Hell exists...and that it is a place of torment. Yet the Scriptures are lacking in the details. We have Jesus' account of the Rich Man and Lazarus, but that is pretty much it (as far as specific details). Now, we have men and women who are writing 180 page books about the subject -- filled with conflicting details that are not found in the Word of God.

Anyway, I don't know what would cause a "successful" man like Wiese, Baxter or Dr. Richard Eby to [i]lie[/i] with their accounts. However, two (or all three) of them are obviously lying. I wonder.

The rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers about Hell. Abraham replied, "[i]If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead[/i]" (Luke 16:31). It makes me wonder why God now decide to use such exclusive, extra-biblical narratives from people who claim to have visited the afterlife.

I wonder if it is wise to allow this book to go unchecked (or to consider it "true") simply because we think that it serves to warn unbelievers?

:-(


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Christopher

 2009/8/29 15:37Profile
Christlives
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Joined: 2009/8/29
Posts: 3
ME.

 Re: 23 minutes in hell

I have read the comments on this movie which as of yet I have not watched, but am going to. From Lucash who believes as I do to the last comment I can only imagine what I will see. Hello all. I obviously am new to this site, yet not to sermonindex. I look forward to leaving a comment or two. Matthew 11:28-30

Quote:

Lucash wrote:
Just got done listening to the "23 Minutes in Hell" video on Youtube. I stand firm in my belief that this did NOT happen. Hell IS eternal, by no means is it to be simply visited. I do believe that Hell is real. I believe what the scriptures say about Hell, but when this man quotes scripture, it is taken out of context. Context is everything when interpreting scriptures. Look and see where the scripture was used and what was said before and after it. He didn't shed a tear when speaking about being at Jesus' feet. The camera looked to the crowd and you could see women wiping their eyes, and yet they didn't even go through this "experience". There is no fear of God in this mans preaching. He keeps a straight face with a mono-toned voice. No description of Hell can be depicted by man. Nor any description of Jesus can be depicted by man.


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Jo

 2009/8/29 21:00Profile
Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re: 23 Minutes in Hell?

Hello ccchhhrrriiisss,

I too have taught in public schools and then in a private Christian school, and I share your wife's joy in the refreshing change of having students who are respectful and responsible for their own learning.

I have always believed that one should be deeply-rooted in God's word in order to properly assess writings and teachings of "Christian" authors. Too many are easily deceived by the "Christian" label. Without a deep understanding of scripture to refer too, it is easy to swallow false teachings, hook, line and sinker.

While your wife may feel unfairly pressured to teach on this book that she may not agree with, it could also present an opportunity to teach her students how to practice Berean nobility (Ac 17:11), by comparing passages of this book to those in the Bible, in order to determine whether the work is scriptural or not. Then she will help them develop an important skill that will serve them well as Christians in the future.

 2009/8/29 22:00Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3414
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: 23 Minutes in Hell?

Chris,

I do not know anything about this particular book. I read some of the replies and thought of another book that might help some see what a "good" book is as opposed to a not-so-good book on after death!! LOL

She didn't go to hell, she went to heaven but only after God dealt with her for two weeks while in a coma. At the time, 1959, she was the only person on record to be dead almost 30 minutes (I think) and come back to life without any resuscitation.

Here again, there was a purpose to this story and experience: to make her more like Christ. That is what I remember about this book.

[url=http://www.amazon.com/My-Glimpse-Eternity-Betty-Malz/dp/0800783638]My Glimpse of Eternity by Betty Malz[/url] From Amazon: [i] It's the story of how God dealt with a proud, materialistic woman who had to die to learn how to live.[/i]


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Lisa

 2009/8/30 10:01Profile
Christlives
Member



Joined: 2009/8/29
Posts: 3
ME.

 Re: 23 minutes in hell

I totally agree with you AD. I just finished watching it on You Tube and we should leave all in God's hands, and the contradictions were many. I think this will be a video talked about for some time to come.
Quote; George Whitefield "The riches of His free grace cause me daily to triumph of all the temptations of the wicked one, who is very vigilant, and seeks all occasions to disturb me."


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Jo

 2009/8/31 0:19Profile
pende
Member



Joined: 2009/9/3
Posts: 15


 Re: 23 Minutes in Hell?

I have read the book and I do believe his account. He was not the first to have this experience. Many have written about it. Many doctors life after death, To hell and back, and others. Go on line to a christian bookstore and you will see. God does things in multiples. He never goes without a cloud of witnesses.

 2009/10/18 15:19Profile
JoanM
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Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re: 23 Minutes in Hell?

I suggest your wife read [i][b]One Minute After You Die[/i] by Erwin Lutzer[/b]. It is short.

If she thinks it would be helpful, she could suggest it to the owner of the school. Maybe it would be a substitute or a follow-up, or corrective to the attractive story they have been given. A "now that I have your attention, here is some truth" sort of thing.

I could not find it on SI but I am a poor searcher. The Canadian Revival Fellowship may offer it. I would think the owner of this school has heard of Mr. Lutzer.

 2009/10/18 20:58Profile









 Re:

I believe his account is true too.

 2009/10/19 2:34
KathleenP
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Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

I guess I'm amazed that so many times we jump upon someone that we don't know and are zealous to attack them because they have experienced and preached something that is obviously bearing fruit.

When Bill and his wife first began to speak publicly, they paid ALL travel expenses out of pocket.

They are quiet and humble people and not showboats by any means. I could understand why after speaking to numerous congregations, that mentioning of seeing the Lord will not always be as poignant as the beginning because it would have been repeated often and I can understand how it would appear that he was being casual.

I have seen actual demon spirits and was belittled when I spoke about it. It kept me quiet for years until I met other believers that had experienced similar situations.

Our accounts were different, but what we saw was real. This includes a dear sister in Christ who died briefly in surgery and hovered over the pits while unsaved. She saw hell and fiery arrows shot forth. After her salvation, she read about them in Ephesians.

I guess we we sometimes are far to quick to judge, and these people seem to have their share of ridicule and mocking, that is for sure.

After reading their accounts, I am much more sensitive about a place Jesus doesn't want anyone to go to and that is a good place to be.


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Kathleen

 2009/10/19 5:34Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4517


 Re:

Hi KathleenP...

Quote:
I guess I'm amazed that so many times we jump upon someone that we don't know and are zealous to attack them because they have experienced and preached something that is obviously bearing fruit.

I certainly understand your concern. Yet, I suppose that someone else could say the exact same thing about people who are so quick to embrace something without faithfully testing the claims (rather than a quick consideration of apparent "fruit").

The point that I was trying to make is that there are MANY people who have made claims of visiting either Heaven or Hell...or both. Of course, all of them have described Heaven as a wonderful place and Hell as a terrible place. Yet the only thing that seems to be common in most of their stories is that their stories all seem to contradict one another. Dr. Richard Eby (a doctor who died after falling from his balcony) spoke of both Heaven and Hell in a way that contradicts Bill Wiese. Mary Baxter (in her book [i]A Divine Revelation of Hell[/i]) claimed to have visited Hell on several occasions, and her stories are also in direct contradiction with the claims made by Wiese. Many other people have claimed conflicting tales of visiting Eternity and then returning. Some of them are OBVIOUSLY false (like Jesse Duplantis's ridiculous "Close Encounters of the God Kind," in which he claims that he has Gucci furniture in his eternal mansion, a picture of Mary and baby Jesus in his heavenly bathroom, the souls of unborn and aborted babies asking God that they can be born on Earth and gothic-clad angels playing heavy metal rock-n-roll before the throne of God).

Now, nearly all of these tales (about trips to Heaven or Hell) all seem to "inspire" fruit where people consider life after death. Yet some of them are false. So, are they truly bearing godly [i]fruit[/i]? If so, is this even the type of fruit that would cause a person to remain in Christ Jesus? Remember, the rich man begged Abraham to send a person from Heaven or Hell back to life in order to warn his brothers. Abraham's reply? No, because, "[i] If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead[/i]" (Luke 16:31). Paul spoke about a man (possibly himself) who was caught up into the third heavens and saw things "[i]which it is not lawful for a man to utter[/i]" (II Corinthians 12:1-4).

Sister, I am NOT saying that Bill Wiese is being untruthful in his claims. I am only beginning to look through his book and audio/video testimony in order to "test" his claims. The one problem that I already can see is that many of his claims cannot be verified by the Word of God. Yes, we know that Hell is a very real and very terrible place. Yet, Bill Wiese goes into specifics that are NOT included in the Word of God. Thus, many of the claims within his book cannot be tested by the Word of God because those claims are extra-Biblical. This is true of nearly every other claim made by people who tell stories about trips to Heaven and/or Hell.

Yes, many Christians can be "far too quick to judge." But is this what we are doing? Perhaps we are not quick enough to TEST. Paul encouraged us to do this in I Thessalonians 5:21. While we aren't necessarily to judge the heart of the man or his motives, we can test the claims. This is quite different from "fruit inspecting." I've noticed that some people are far too quick to also point out "good fruit." In spiritual terms, I have known some people who have a difficult time telling the difference between a cherry and a crab apple. Worse, there are "fruit" that appears lovely at the time but can be poisonous (or even deadly) if consumed.

A former professor of mine wrote a book that examines many of the claims made by people who speak about visiting Eternity and returning (along with other widely publicized claims of the supernatural). Dr. Bill Alnor wrote [i]Heaven Can't Wait[/i]. Dr. Alnor, who served as a pastor of a Calvary Chapel for several years, shows how many of these claims strongly contradict one another. In fact, he even shows how some of the people actually contradict themselves with each subsequent telling of their story.

In regard to the purpose of this thread: My wife was assigned to read [i]23 Minutes in Hell[/i] by the owner of a Christian school where she works as a teacher. When my wife met with the owner, she explained her hesitation about embracing many of the specific claims found within the book. My wife explained her view that Hell can only be described as a terrifying, eternal place reserved for people who do not know the Lord, and that this is already clear in the Word of God. My wife further said that she didn't really need a book to describe the precise details of a place that she already knows is horrible from the Word of God. The owner kindly agreed.

Anyway, I hope that you don't view this thread or the underlying question as an affront upon Bill Wiese. I don't know the man (or much about him) to even want to do that. Rather, my wife and I were inquisitive about this man's specific claims, and what others think about so many often-conflicting tales of visits to Hell (or Heaven). Since we had not read the book at the time, we weren't sure what to think. We have since read through the book and have already found some issues with certain specific claims. This wasn't meant to cast a reflection upon Bill Wiese at all, but just as a request for advice from anyone who might have been more familiar with the man's claims and had tested them by the Word of God.

As I said before, many of his specific claims cannot be verified by the Word (since the Word does not go into nearly as much detail about the layout of Hell as Wiese does). After my wife has (and to a lesser extent, I have) looked through the book, we do have some concerns with certain specific claims, which could potentially call into question the entire account.


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Christopher

 2009/10/19 12:46Profile





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