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 Re: The errosion of Britains Christian heritage

As God leads me, I think this "pressing" process of the Church is glorious, and if anyone depises me for this leading, or hates me, refutes me, so be it. What I write to you on a cyber forum, I would say in front of a pulpit, or in person.

The various churches, denominations, worship services, ecclesiology have become so pro forma, run like a secular business, so much in the flesh, with men now serving as Christian superstars, celebrity preachers, beautiful buildings using much money and resource, so much posturing, and just so much flesh and pride, would to God He use the world and its craven foul instruments to crush this faux mimicry of Jesus' bride, drive it all underground and start anew.

When I go into a Church and am handed a bulletin that says "10:45-11:15 Worship" "11:20-12:05 Pastor So and So message's "Titus Call to the Church", it grieves me no end, because WE dare to put God into a time "box"?

and heaven forbid if the pastor doesnt come up with a "3 point sermon, or heaven forbid if the pastor doesnt have a seminary degree, or heaven forbid, the board of directors doesnt confab on the lastest building project, or aNY number of busy work that a church can figure out to occupy the time.

We have become SO INSTITUTIONAL, so "corporate"...we even use the words "corporate prayer"....we even have a particular vocabulary that is a wink and a nod to let each other know, we are one of "us", instead of one of "them".

We have even devolved to such a point where we engage in useless meaningless quarrels and arguments on theo-matters of dubious importance.

We have even allowed oursleves to be used like prostitutes by political parties, who covet our votes, by screeching about hot button issues that they know will get vast congregations so up in arms with "righteous indignation", to swing elections their way. We let them use non salvation issues like "illlegal immigration", taxes, gun rights, to stir up the church in order to garner their votes, and then argue and back bite about this phony divide between a so-called "social" Gospel and "salvation" Gospel, as if there is such a divide, when there is NOT, there is
[b]only the Good News and it is WHOLE.[/b]

Vast denominations now ordaining homosexual clergy, which is soul sickness, and whats even worse is the denominations whining and crying about the fact that they "could go to jail" about speaking against it. [b]COWARDS![/b] If the Holy Ghost leads one to preach against this, such preacher should RELISH the chains put around them as they are led off to a jail cell. But equally as so, where are the preachers who will speak out against the fact that we dont have enough love to get plumb right indignate that whole families have to sleep underneath bridges and in tent cities, that are being torn apart by the various city and state govts?

oh no, dont do that, because you'll be called a "liberal". Utter rank hypocrisy, cowardice, no spine.

Thats why I pray this secular govt [b]TEAR APART THE INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH!![/b]

"Christian America" "Christian Britain", what a hypocritical farce, its all a stench in God's nostrils.

It's time to go underground, and if you arent ready to worhip in basements, in secret, if you aint ready to worship with illegally held Bibles, precious precious well worn beloved Bibles, if you aint ready to suffer, be beaten, hunted and killed for Christ in the coming future, [b]then get out now![/b]and quit your whining about "family values" and all that other churchianity hypocritical palaber your souls have been polluted with in these last dark decades, Because God Almighty is going to put an end to this game many many people, high and low are playing.

I am not speaking out of my flesh, or my mind.

Get ready, its coming, and you might think it will be "dark days, and I disagree with every fiber of my soul, those will be [b]Days of Glory! Praise the Holy Name of Jesus![/b]

 2009/8/26 14:27

  in due respect, elected

I wonder for how long will america keep on their bill money, 'In God We Trust' ? or Who will be the last american president to pronounce 'God bless america' ?

in love I ask, [b]THATS[/b] what you wonder about?

The Name of God imprinted on money? if it somehow demonstrates national love of Yahweh?

I'm not picking on you, I'm just baffled, that is the least of our worries in this mission of carrying out the Great Comission and REALLY becoming Church.

and again I implore, I only ask this out of love, gentle, no rancor towards you dear brother.

in Jesus love, neil

 2009/8/26 14:50

Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK


As God leads me, I think this "pressing" process of the Church is glorious,

I would agree with this sentiment. There's nothing worse than religious folk who have a self righteous, self comforting view of their postion before Almighty God. Much better to have a clear distinction between the saved and the unsaved. It should be hard thing for someone to associate with the church as in the book of Acts. Church is for the redeemed not the local community.

So rather than trying to lobby governments to keep our Christian rights, we should be concentrating on preaching the gospel?


 2009/8/26 15:53Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


How have you heard this 'dramatic rise' described, or, enumerated, and, what is its comparison with France's situation, where, (I believe), 6 million Mohammedans form part of the total population (and, France is an officially 'secular' country)?

Having been in the UK just last November I can tell you I was not prepared for the number of Muslim's I saw in the airport. I had never before been out of the US.

Robert Wurtz II

 2009/8/26 16:49Profile

Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re: in due respect, elected

nathan4christ wrotte:

The Name of God imprinted on money? if it somehow demonstrates national love of Yahweh?

Dear bro i understand your concern, im aware of the trends of evengilicalism and its compromise with the world and politics. The church of Jesus Christ is not an institution but a living organism and Christ is its Head. Christ said, 'give to Ceasar what belongs to ceasar and to God what belong to God'. We are to pay taxes to the government and respect its dignitaries and pray for our kings or presidents whether they be professing christians or even persons who persecute christians like Nero did with early christians.

The church and state are two different 'institutions', one is divine the other human, the kingdom of God is not the kingdom of this world. Christ reigns in the hearts of those believers who submit to his lordship.Those people who mingle politics with the kingdom of God are trying to moralize or reform society thru the means of goverment and the law of the land. There is no such a thing as christian politics in the new testament or christian state religion because the kindgom of God is spread thru the gosple and is the hearts of true believers where Christ is the King. You can be an official christian in the government or the army and if God calls somebody to fight the injustices of society like Wilberforce or anti-slavery reformers in 19th, God bless them.

True reformation and moral transformation in society is only thru the preaching of Christ and him crusified and this is done thru the church.

It does not make much difference for a christian if the name of God is printed of not on the money or if a president will follow the traditional custom of saying God bless america at the end of an important speech. The church of God will triumph whether its govenment accepts or rejects its message.

America was once called, 'land of the brave and free', and indeed the history of america is very unique in modern times.This country was populated by the puritan pilgrims and other persecuted christian minorities who came here for religious freedom and to worship God according to the dictates of the conscience.
Even after the independence of america, these country was the land of revivals and spiritual awakening. What made this country great was not its politician but those born again simple people who hold up the standard of the gosple in every area of life and not to forget all the prayers of godly people to God to bless their country and indeed God did bless america more then He ever blessed anyother moder nation in the world.

Backsliding compromising christians are responsible for the condition of this country is in.In the 50 the evangelicals were tired of being viewed as accentric fundamentalist who will not compromise with the world and now we have created a pararel univers of our owen similiar to the world. What i mean is we copied the world and brought it in by baptizing its music to christian music, now we have christian movies, novels, christian rock stars, even so called church looks more like an capitalist enterprise than a new testament church. Many maga church pastors are look more like CEO's than Shepherds. The methods & principals of business world are the methods & principals of the the church leaders.

Humanists pshycology in the church,has replace the godly and biblical counsel of pastors and spiritual leaders. Even true spirituality is counterfeited with new age mysticism. Do i wander why God is angry nowdays with america, not at all.


 2009/8/26 18:28Profile

Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK


haydave wrotte:

I think America is in a similar position Spiritually to England was pre 1950s with most people thinking they are Christian and attending church, but with most it is a religious activity with no true conversion.

Hey bro, i could not have said it better, thats really an insight, that i didn't thought about.I believe also that the day america turns its back to supporting Israel and as i understand this is only a matter of time her degradation will be more evident.

According to a sondage that i heard on radio more than 90 percent of jewish population have lost confidence on the Obama administration. So far President Obama has not addressed Izrael directly and so far as i understand he is more concerned with better relationships with arabian countries.

oops, i did not mean to get into politics :-)


 2009/8/26 19:42Profile


I am in complete agreement that Christianity should stay out of the work place. Your not hired to preach the gospel, your hired to work whatever you've been hired on to do. Paul says for us to submit to our employers, pray for them. If we want to talk about Jesus Christ to our fellow workers it should be outside the working establishment. If you get fired for speaking the name of Jesus while on the job that is your own fault, don't count it as persecution, count it as stupidity for not heeding the warnings given by the Apostle.

You don't have to say anything, let your conduct speak. I never had to say anything on the work job, people knew that I was different but they didn't know why. I was called a "unique" and "rare breed". My mouth didn't have to flap to mention about Jesus, the world knows something about you because they are in darkness and we are in the light, seeing a light on in a dark place is something to behold, people will stand up and take notice.

Your anger (your zeal) will not produce the righteousness of God, it still is and ever shall be by His Spirit.

 2009/8/26 20:36

Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW


I do not understand all this rant against governments and institutional churches or apostasy of the last days. I know that no one else than GOD Himself allows this dillusion to happen.
Everything that God does is perfect, even his judgements should make us fall down and worship him in fearful abandon.

When you read Revelation you see earth being struck with the fierce plagues and indescribable destruction. At the same time you have passages of the most beautiful and highest level of worship of the saints.

We are entering terrible times, but also times where we can make tremendous exploits for God. We are sooo fortunate to have eternal life and those outside, be they in a fallen pseudo church or secular mindset face such a terrible fate. Are our hearts not bleeding for them? How many of them have ever heard a full gospel presentation from us? A sinner can only sin inasmuch as fish can only swim and not walk. How can we expect them to do right when they are utterly unable to.

We have to think in terms of redemption. Oh Lord, have mercy on us, send laborers into the harvest.

 2009/8/26 21:18Profile

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