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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 The 10 most "hotly" debated topics...

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ! Our risen saviour and SOON coming King!

I will not be entering into too much commentary "myself" re: this posting - suffice to say that after being a regular contributor to this particular forum and some (3) other forums over the past 5 years or so ... ive noticed certain (repetitious themes) that keep cropping up (over and over) - and repeat themselves! And at times, with somewhat monotous regularity.

Is that because (a) We still dont have the answers? (B) we haven't settled the questions yet? Or is it (C) - maybe we are not meant to know and have all the answers? or is it finally (D) what the prophet Isaiah, And Jesus and his apostle Paul wrote " Having eyes they don't see ...having ears they dont hear... and having hearts neither do they (yet) understand ...lest at any time they should SEE with there eyes, And hear with there ears and be converted, and there hearts should be healed. ???

All very good questions to ponder and to muse on!

But let's now begin with the top ten list: And my ten Most HOTLY debated topics in all the bible:

NO1. "Who is Jesus"?? This one: I find personally (the most interesting) of them all! and why is that? Simply because after 2000 years of church history and some (26) New Testament epistles - and manifold bible colleges and lectures given on "new testament survey" and various theology works on "The person and work of Christ"... yet are we are still asking "the age old question" of - Who is Jesus?? hmmm.

The Jews are still quibbling over the same question in fact: of (who is Jesus?) lets look at some of thier conversation pieces...

Some said he was a good man ...but others said he is not a good man ....but hath a devil and is mad... another man pipes up and says can a devil open the eyes of the blind? The debate continues.... Then answered the Jews and said to him: " say we not well that thou hast a devil, and art an samiritan ?? How can this man having never LEARNED LETTERS...(know doctrine)? And SPEAK THESE THINGS? But others were more adamant and insisted: He is a prophet: And sent from God! (AT THAT) The retort comes back though from the pharisee CROWD AND SECTION: Search and see yourselves ...out of galilee ...ariseth prophet!! And after that saying they all dispersed each man - to his own dwelling.( it's as if that ONE comment about no prophet arising out of galilee ) totally debunked and settled any question over wether Jesus ...might ...very ...Christ?
(also of interest in that last debate over wether Jesus was a prophet - was that notation...that nicodemus that came to Jesus "by night" was amonst those debating the issue...saying does our law judge anyone - befeore it hear him or know what he doeth???

No2. "Can a born again saved Christian - lose his salvation: And subsequently be lost and eternally damned" ?? This one will never cease to be disputed -and of course the calvinists and arminians have turned the debate into an "artform"

NO3. Was Judas Iscariot ever saved?? This one raises questions over the ultimate pre-destination debate - and of questions that surround the meaning of the word "Perdition"

NO4. Does the bible teach a LITERAL hell fire and brimstone (PUNISHMENT) of the wicked? The question in doubt here ... is how can a soul (an eternal soul) burn for ALL of eternity?? on and on and on and on ...the flesh can burn - but the soul of man??

No5. Where did Cains wife come from?? The question in doubt here is: If adam and eve had Abel - and Cain in the due process of time rose up and killed his brother Abel ...then that brings the population in the garden of Eden back to three souls! So then if cain went out of the presence of the Lord into the land of Nod ( sleepy Nod ) and knew his wife -- then (where) and (how) did Cain's wife ...come from?

No6. " what is the bible definition of sanctification "Is sanctification progressive or entire" or a combination of both??
This one crops up all the time...And usually the one who opens the debate running is the same one who closes the debate ... with the words that he is not satisfied that any one person has supplied an adequate biblical definition .... he then closes the debate leaving his own legacy ... of not solving the riddle either. hmmm

NO7. Is satan the Lucifer or anointed cherub of both Isaiah chapter 14 and of ezekiel 28?? this one has been (so beaten to death) in some forum discussions that it hasn't surfaced now for quite sometime. But it will be back and will crop up in doctrinal discussions - along the way...

No8. What is Paul teaching in Romans seven
(2) natures or (1) nature?? Is it a New man but still with inherent carnal desires? Is it new man and new creation but stuck with total depravity of the flesh...

No9. Which bible should i choose?? Is the authorized version the best and safest and most dependable of them all? and further to that do modern translations weaken and even delete certain crucial texts?? Or is OLD King James simply unfashionable - and the language both anti-quated and non-contemporary?? Some are King James only and some pro new version ....either way people end up getting offended or hurt in the debate and the cross-fire arguments!! What should our position be then ? And who is right? Ahhh let every man be persuaded in his or her own mind. Respect choice and respect the fact different people are informed about these things - at different levels!

No10. Will Christians be here during the time of the Anti-christ and the system of the beast? - and that which is known to us -- as the time of the great tribultion?? This one is a real hot potato and is widely challenged and disputed on a regular and on-going basis. Some have no position and just teach ( be ready ) and (BE watching) others teach there is order and there is chronology to prescribed prophetic events that all point to the emminent and soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ...others remain in limbo, and very non-chelant about it all ( prophecy) or simply dont care to take up a position ( And so the debate on this one ...continues to rage )

There you have it !!!

My (own) top ten list...and you probably have a few of your own -- to add -- to the mix, also?

Oh: And i suppose you could add without being too facious about it " should we debate scripture "??

And Add to the fray: and to the mix: other hotly contested and debated topics such as ...

Who is melchisedec: ??

Does the Bible teach tithing or N.T stewardship??

Should women teach and preach??

Does the bible teach pre, mid, or post tribulation rapture (or) does it teach no rapture?

What was Annais and sapphira's sin?? Was it the sin of lying? or that of coveteousness?

And there you have it: An interesting array of hotly discussed and biblically debated topics...

Interestingly though: And just Just touching on the issue of the Melcisedec question - and to furhter throw the cat amongst the pidgeons says of melchisedec ...that he was...

~~ without mother
~~ without beginning of days
~~ nor end of life
~~ and made LIKE the son of man (The word "LIKE" doesnt necessarily mean say ...he "IS" the son of man! - "like" and "made" will often come down to an interpretation issue - and a definition issue - of the reader!!!

But harking back to (without mother)....Jesus when he became flesh ....had a mother (Mary) and when he became the word made flesh .... he had a beginning a child and babe - in bethlehem. And at the cross he had an (END TO LIFE) - that is his flesh! ( Just something to think about ) brethren...

According to hebrews Jesus did not assume the role of highpriest until the orignal priesthood of Levi - was dismantled and taken away!! In other words it had to be taken away before he could assume the role of HIGH PRIEST!

So how can he be priest before that time - in the book of Genesis ....AND THEN - ALSO LATER??

In my estimatation: The point of hebrews seven is like melchisedec who had no end of life ...Christ when he was appointed role of high priest from the father melchisedec's on-going(ness) - of having no end of days! So christ has the eternal role NOW - as our High priest! For if he were ON earth ...he should "NOT" be a PRIEST
( HEBS 8:4 ) Seeing that there were priests already - offering up gifts and sacrifices: That to me says he cannot or can not be a priest whilst ever, he was on earth...

I think: we just have to let God - be God

Take all the limitations of him - and let God, be God !!!

Meaning: He (God) can do whatever he pleases and ( he doesn't need our permission to do so ) or to inarguarate something, or to set precadents! even if that...goes against...logic ...or certain theologies!!

I think it appropriate to end the article this way

" I thank thee, O father, Lord of heaven and earth, BECAUSE ... thou hast HIDDEN these things from the WISE and the PRUDENT, and hast revealed them unto babes...

For you see your calling brethren: Not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many wise ...are called - but the foolish, and the weak, and the despised, and base things of life has God called - that he might confound the things that are mighty, and bring to nought the things that are!!

And when they saw: The BOLDNESS of Peter and John and percieved they were ignorant men and UNLEARNED, they marvelled! - and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus

Jesus quipped often: Beware of the Scribes!!!

The list on debates: Is a veritable endless one.
but so is the whole issue of disputing and contending bible subjects ...And so when you think about -- it's (ENDLESS)...



So that you are NOT tossed to and fro or as the wave of the sea that is tossed and driven about of a fierce wind. Or as the author of Hebrews says "carried about by divers (many) and strange doctrines" (THOSE EVERY WINDS OF DOCTRINE) out there...

And its a really simple solution: Be no more children: Children keep growing until they stop GROWING UP IN BOTH STATURE AND IN HEIGHT (no)?: and then they become a full grown man (an adult) AS IT WERE, FULLY GROWN UP -- scripture admonishes us to grow up IN HIM -- IN ALL THINGS.

A simple answer: But then again - Paul was worried about the corinthians that they would be corrupted ...from ...the ...simplicity...that is ...found

One final thing: Do we just want to discuss the issues (or) do we want to actually walk in them? (or the truth of them)? Jesus told the Jews this: Neither will YE dwell in the truth...Why do you not understand my speech? even - because ye cannot HEAR my word! you are of your father the devil, who abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. John said in his small epistles he had no greater joy...than to hear...that they walked... IN the truth. Not just simply (knew) or (assented to) the truth, that is ( that knowledge which simply touches the brain or the mind) ....but understood it and then walked in it. If you continue in my word, you shall KNOW the truth, and the truth shall set you free...and then -- shall be my disciples (in- deed) in "deed". And Not just hearers of the word -decieving your ownselves, but be ye doers of the word! For it was not the hearers of the law that were justified, but the doers of the law...that were, justified -- in God's sight!!!!!

THE BOTTOM LINE IS SIMPLY THIS: We need to get anchored and established in his word - So that our FAITH should NOT stand in men. God uses men, yes, sure he does...otherwise toss out what i say too! But the anointing ye have ABIDES IN YOU...AND YE HAVE ...NO NEED ...THAT ANY (MAN) TEACH YOU! THE BEREANS WENT AND SEARCHED THINGS OUT FOR "THEMSELVES" FOR "THEMSELVES" - TO SEE IF THE THINGS SAID - WERE SO...

Bro Stephen

 2009/8/22 22:15Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3400
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: The 10 most "hotly" debated topics...

I guess it's more than ten then! LOL

I will point out one more with several offshoots ... [b]divorced christians [/b]
~ is it the 2nd unforgivable sin (or first, depending on your stance!)?
~ can they or can't they remarry?
~ can they or can't they teach?
~ can they or can't they be leaders?

THE BOTTOM LINE IS SIMPLY THIS: We need to get anchored and established in his word - So that our FAITH should NOT stand in men. God uses men, yes, sure he does...otherwise toss out what i say too! But the anointing ye have ABIDES IN YOU...AND YE HAVE ...NO NEED ...THAT ANY (MAN) TEACH YOU! THE BEREANS WENT AND SEARCHED THINGS OUT FOR "THEMSELVES" FOR "THEMSELVES" - TO SEE IF THE THINGS SAID - WERE SO...

Bro Stephen,

You are exactly right. The Lord has really convicted me of arguing over many of these petty intrepretations of scriptures between human beings and to just be about my Father's business because when we are arguing, we are stationary (stagnant). He wants rivers of living water to be flowing out of each one of us but it won't happen if we continually sit in front of our computers arguing with one another!

The gospel according to Lysa!! (huge grin) But it was to me, so I am the one accountable for it!

God bless you all!!


 2009/8/23 6:01Profile

Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re: The 10 most "hotly" debated topics...

I think number 3, 5, and 6 our actually our simple answers that many our taking out of context.Judas could not been saved because the scripture tells us that he was the son of perdition and that he had a devil. Also before the holy spirit came i don't know if any man was saved, maybe in the sense that christ kept the rest of the disciples in the faith towards him but their full salvation did not come until the holy spirit came in pentecost. Yes Christ did say that their names were written in heavens and to rejoice for that, but the old testament had prophesied about judas rebellion, he was walking around with christ the whole time with deceit towards everyone but christ new that he wasn't.
Cain's wife had to come from someones from his own family most likely a sister, unless God had created other people other places without saying anything in the Bible about it. We always here that saying just because it wasn't said in the Bible does not mean it is not true.
I would say that sactification is an ongoing work in us until Christ comes and then we our glorified and then become perfect, but here on earth we grow in the image of christ until he comes. I wonder sometimes why we just can't be made perfect when our we saved but that is not me too question.

Lysa i think scripture is pretty clear on forgiveness and marriage. If your mate divorced you could not do really anything about that, my friends brought that up to my other friend if he married and his wife divorced him they said he would be convicted the rest of his life, first i told him if she is an unbeliever do not marry her, but if he does that if she decides to divorce him that is o.k because she is an unbeliever, and all he can do his let her go in peace. He is already forgiven but now he should only go for a believer. But he is not unforgiven because she divorced him. Say you were a believer and decided on the divorce, disobeyed scripture andf yes it is a sin but have we not forgot that christ died for all your sins and he did die for those bad sins to.You see i myself am sick of hearing this works salvation, thats what it really is, you our saying by what you do and your obedience what keeps you in salvation , so it is no longer the righteousness of christ, but our own filthy righteousness.Was it not the reason christ had to die was that we could not stand one inch close to Gods presence without being destroyed by him because of his perfect holiness and perfect justice and he simply cannot let you in his presence by his nature because of our wickedness and sin. Charles leiter puts it real good in a sermon called justification and regeneration, he said that God is calling out for justice and can't wait to give us what we deserve truly in hell, because God has perfect justice. He is angry against us. When you sin you do not go in and out of salvation, in and out of christ. We would have no chance then because we sin all day long and many sins you don't even realize we do. It is the constant cleansing in the blood of christ, that is why we go back in a relationship to the father and ask for forgiveness, we do not ask to be a son again. It christ's blood that forgives us, his righteousness that justifies us by our faith, not you, not us. Not by anything we our doing. The book of james is talking about the evidence of our faith and that we our justified about the reality of our faith in the eyes of men by our works in which they really see what we our saying is true by our works but for God he says our faith in christ and that is it, he doesn't look for our works. Lysa God bless you, people like to distort scripture don't they, you and i know you our forgiven not because we say so but the bible declares it.

John Beechy

 2009/8/23 14:40Profile

 Re: The 10 most "hotly" debated topics...

I still ask the question from time time, "Just who is Jesus?"

He is not like Moses, nor was He like any of the prophets, yet here He is born NOT of a man but of a woman. I think it to be a good thing to stop and meditate on who Jesus was. Who do you know of besides Jesus that no man's seed was involved in the impregnation of a woman?

We accept it as fact because we have a bible to tell us, but it still mind boggling. The more I ask that question the more interesting things crop up about Him. I think He wants us to ask that question, whether your a sinner or a saint.

 2009/8/23 15:18

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK



bible4life wrote:
Also before the holy spirit came i don't know if any man was saved, maybe in the sense that christ kept the rest of the disciples in the faith towards him but their full salvation did not come until the holy spirit came in pentecost.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

This was after the cross but before Pentecost.

Colin Murray

 2009/8/23 20:58Profile

Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois


ok so that was after judas was dead to, so if that was when they were officialy saved then, judas was not.

John Beechy

 2009/8/24 0:16Profile


You forgot "Is Christian rock music of God or of the devil?" That one always gets things going! ... lol


 2009/8/25 12:43

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