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 Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

You all have a very nice forum here. I am so glad to see so many seriously seeking to know God who is Truth.

Most here that I have read seem to have one doctrine in common: Sola Scriptura. The idea that the Bible Alone is the only rule for faith and practice. I submit that this is a self-refuting proposition.

The Bible never claims to be the only rule for faith and practice. Scripture claims to be God-breathed or inspired. We taught the world to believe this. It claims to be inerrant. We also taught the world to believe this over a millennium before Martin Luther ever came along. It claims to be the Word of God. We also taught the world to believe this.

But the Sacred Scriptures are NOT the only authoritative rule for belief and practice

It is not sufficient. And I would submit that the wide variance of opinions held by sincere seekers is proof that it is insufficient.

Why? Because the Scriptures need to be interpreted. And herein lies the problem. Each of us is FALLABLE. And therefore so is our interpretation.

It is amazing to me to see so many who believe that the Holy Spirit was able to preserve the written text of Scripture and yet not believe that He preserved an infallible interpreter of those Scriptures.

I think this is probably a good start. Along with the obvious opposition this statement is sure to receive here. I am curious to know how many here have every really considered what I am proposing.

FYI, this is the ancient belief of every church of apostolic origin: Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic, and Maronite.

I'm looking forward to this discussion.

CatholicApologist

 2009/8/22 20:35
starvn4truth
Member



Joined: 2009/8/16
Posts: 8
Niagara Falls, Canada

 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

I assume that when you use "we" you are refering to the catholic church.
There is no need for intellectual debate or discussion. Rather a need for more historical research and understanding regarding the origin of catholicism and even the reformation for that matter. In neither of these groups will you find the humble child like believers who suffered for the faith and were actually killed by these groups who termed them heretics for not bowing down to the imposed secular religion of the time but rather humbly worshipped the LORD in spirit and in truth.
Flee your religion. Recognize your broken condition. Humble yourself and pray for the new life Jesus offers and wait upon Him.

Praying for you in Jesus' name,

Mike Stepien

 2009/8/22 21:05Profile









 Re:

Quote:
In neither of these groups will you find the humble child like believers who suffered for the faith and were actually killed by these groups who termed them heretics



Which group of "humble child like believers" were you referring to?

The Gnostics? The Circumcisers (First Century)? Montanism (Late Second Century)? Iconoclasm (Seventh and Eighth Centuries)? Catharism (Eleventh Century)? I could go on.

But you are stalling. Please rebut my statement if you are able.

Nowhere does the Bible claim to be the ONLY rule for faith and practice.

If you can't prove me wrong from Scripture, then you have a self-refuting proposition.

 2009/8/22 21:18
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2749
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

Welcome to SermonIndex.

Quote:
Most here that I have read seem to have one doctrine in common: Sola Scriptura. The idea that the Bible Alone is the only rule for faith and practice. I submit that this is a self-refuting proposition.



This is a straw man you are setting up by defining Sola Scriptura in these terms. Sola Scriptura does not mean that the Bible is the only source of truth, rather it means that the Bible is the only source of inerrant authority.

The Bible claims to be the word of God and I believe that the Bible substantiates that claim. If someone else is going to come along and claim to be a source of inerrant authority they then have the burden of substantiating that claim. If they don't demonstrate this then the Bible stands alone as the sole source just by process of elimination.

Quote:
Why? Because the Scriptures need to be interpreted. And herein lies the problem. Each of us is FALLABLE. And therefore so is our interpretation. It is amazing to me to see so many who believe that the Holy Spirit was able to preserve the written text of Scripture and yet not believe that He preserved an infallible interpreter of those Scriptures.



This is a bit of untenable logic of your own. In one breath you claim that each is fallable, and then in the next you seem to claim that there is an infallible interpreter. Which is it?

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2009/8/22 21:25Profile
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

Well,

the Law in the Bible claims to be the only truth.

The New Covenant also claims to be the only truth.

The Apostle's also claimed that they held the only truth. Therefore their writings are also the only truth.

So in these things we have the Bible as a whole which claims to be the only truth.

The main thing is that the Catholic Church has sought to add their tradition to the Scripture.

We do not hold that the Pope's have Apostolic succession nor that certain traditions that are not in the Bible have been passed on. This is mainly because many of the practices are unbiblical and that there is also a lack of proof to these claims on your side.

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, 1Corinthians 4:6

 2009/8/22 21:31Profile









 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

Sir, I dont know what you're up to, besides endevouring to stir up a whole lot of controversy, but let me ask you this question: what kind of feckless cur would I be, if I went onto a forum hosted by some variant of the roman institution, and asked, "How can the pope proclaim himself the "vicar" of Christ, when in reality he is the man of perdition?"

Would that be a conversation starter on such a forum? That's just looking for a cyber fight, which is what I think you are doing.

Light has no fellowship with darkness.

I'm sure there are many poor souls trapped within that scarlet whore of babylon, the roman institution that genuinely love Jesus, and I pray God frees them from this hellish system, some call the "roman catholic church". There's nothing "catholic" about it in the true definition of the word, and it certainly isnt a "church", or part of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, its just a satanic ruse with its popery, priestcraft, superstitution, mary worship, and it's gaggle of predatory homosexual priests that papa tries to either bury under the rug, or buy off the victims of these deviants who infest this demonic institution.

Repent now and flee rome, before you split hell wide open. Did I make that plain enough for you?

 2009/8/22 21:39









 Dear Moderators

Dear brothers,
I urge in the Love of Christ, lock this thread, its just troll bait, and certainly not edifying. I said what I HAD to say, I didnt enjoy saying it, but it had to be said....neil

 2009/8/22 21:45









 Re:

Sir, have you ever even BEEN to a Catholic forum? If you had, you wouldn't have made such a silly accusation. There is probably every stripe of anti-Catholic such as yourself at:

http://forums.catholic.com/

I'm not in the least offended by your ignorant and superstitious, fear-filled assessment of the Church Jesus Christ left behind. I once was ignorant like you. Praise the name of Jesus, He opened my eyes to the truth through His grace.

So, no, I don't want a cyber fight. But I would to God that I could fight and overcome whatever force of Hell is blinding your mind to the truth.

BTW, you didn't answer my question. Show me a Scripture that claims that the Bible is the ONLY rule for faith and practice. Until you can, how can I expect to take you seriously?

 2009/8/22 21:52
starvn4truth
Member



Joined: 2009/8/16
Posts: 8
Niagara Falls, Canada

 Re:

Donatists, Stablers, Catharers, etc. Names given by the catholic church, and evenetually by the reformers as well, to label those humbly following Jesus outside the realm of religious arrogancy. God always keeps a remnant. See "The Reformers and Their Stepchildren" Leonard Verduin.

Your pride in your position blinds you from the truth which is in Christ.

Flee your religion. Recognize your broken condition. Humble yourself and pray for the new life Jesus offers and wait upon Him.

Praying for you in Jesus' name,

Mike Stepien

 2009/8/22 21:54Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

Catholic,
It may be helpful to engage with only one or two of the brother or sisters here, as opposed to the few dozen that will likely post responses (myself included).

HOWEVER...

I'm sure that you are aware that your position "[i][b]...the Bible Alone is the only rule for faith and practice. I submit that this is a self-refuting proposition.[/b][/i]" is not the majority view on this site (which, btw, is centered on biblical revival). There are plenty of other sites dedicated to the type of dialogue that you desire, and plenty of sites that contain answers to your presuppositions (which obviously aren't original).

THEREFORE...


You have already shown that you are convinced of your position concerning [u][i]your[/i][/u] bible, so what is your intent? Is there any chance that your mind may be changed by the scriptures and doctrine that will be put forth? Perhaps a better question may be:
[i][b]What proof could we offer to you that would change your mind?[/b][/i]

If you can't think of any, move on please.

Semper Sola Fide,
Joe

 2009/8/22 22:18Profile





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