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enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Is this stealing?


Fact is, as far as I am concerned, the answer is yes. I know, I haven't told you anything yet, but, here goes.

A sister in the Lord, took some items from work without permission.

The items in total were less than a pound in money, but she still took them unknown to her employer.

I was devastated to hear this. She had never done anything like this in the 28 years she had been a Christian, so why now?

In a single word, poverty.

She tried to justify it, saying that they had no money, what were they supposed to do? That is, herself and her husband. He would be angry if he knew what she did, very much so.

I told her, what if she was found out, she could lose her job, and then where would they be?

I was so grieved by what she did, that I sent her some money. But I don't want to play God to her, finacially speaking that is.

Proverbs 30 tells us to ask of God neither poverty nor riches and it says in verse 9, 'lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God.

God help us to trust Him, and not the arm of flesh.

 2009/8/18 5:48Profile









 Re: Is this stealing?

Hi enid,

Quote:
God help us to trust Him, and not the arm of flesh.

Thank you for posting this, and the verse in Proverbs. It is timely for me, as encouragement to keep trusting the Lord, just when it's getting really [i]exciting![/i]

 2009/8/18 6:30
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: Is this stealing?

I don't know what I would do in her situation but could she need a friend that will help her build her faith? Faith to believe that God cares about those things that total less than a pound?


_________________
Lisa

 2009/8/18 6:33Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

To be honest, I wonder if things get financially worse for us, if we won't sink to the same level.

Don't we fear God? Or is that only when things are going well?

My do we need His fear in us.

 2009/8/18 8:32Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Enid,

You raised a good question[s]...

I am going to speak as an employer. We do hire part-timers and we also sell retail to the public, so we get to see a lot of people in the course of a year.

This summer we hired a Christian girl. She did her work well- at the beginning. I was pleased and told her so. As time went on, we discovered it was taking her too long. The work she said took her 19 hours takes me 4.5 hours. My DH talked to her about her cell phone use and told her to leave the phone in the car. At the end of the day she quit her job and told others she quit because she could not do it good enough for me. Well...!!! Not only did she steal time, she also lied. [Brother] James 2:10 informs us that if one offends in one point he is guilty of all. This I have noticed that when one sin becomes obvious, there are other sins lurking in the shadows. The one that has been exposed is a warning sign there are other problems there.

By the way, Titus 2:9-10 addresses this issue as well.

These are my thoughts concerning this problem...

Got an update on this lady?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/8/20 18:25Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Here is a scripture that came to mind.

Pro 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;
Pro 6:31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2009/8/20 20:33Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Well, Ginnyrose, you asked for an update, here it is.

She said she will replace the items she took, but it has to be without her employer knowing.

She took them without him knowing, so she has to return them in the same way.

By the way, what she took were two bin liners, and 3 tablets of soap to do her washing with.

I ask you, was it worth it? And yet, it is stealing, in my eyes anyway.

But worse still is her attitude, like, what were we supposed to do, and, she had no choice.

That was her inital attitude, but she seems to have softened in her stance.

The scripture refered to in Proverbs 30, refers to someone who steals to eat, not wash clothes!

Don't want to make light of it, because God is not light concerning sin, but there is a difference.

At least there is restitution being made.

But it is scary the levels Christians sink to when things get bad.

I fear for myself too in this. Supposing I fall into that trap. It can happen, but I pray it doesn't.

God bless.

 2009/8/21 4:07Profile
Lorijean
Member



Joined: 2008/6/4
Posts: 46
Austin, Texas

 Re:

Well, you can’t get more straightforward than “Thou Shalt Not Steal”! So, unless the employer has given his employees permission to take home for their personal use any supplies or materials they happen to find at work, than yes, it is stealing. Consider, for illustrative purposes, what if every employee took home the laundry soap, paper towels, toilet paper, pens, paper, etc. they needed? Obviously, the company does not intend to provide all these things to their employees.

Enid, I don’t believe you are “playing God” by sharing with her that she is sinning and grieving the Holy Spirit, but it is her responsibility to take what you tell her to God and ask Him to search her heart and confirm what you are telling her. The problem, as I see it, is that she only considering returning the items to appease you. She is not convicted of the Holy Spirit, because if she were listening to Him, I believe she would gladly not only confess what she has done to her employer, but return the items and delight in the glory it would bring to God. If there is nothing wrong with what she did, why can’t she just tell the employer? Surely he would understand….

I remember as a new Christian being convicted about things I “stolen” before I got saved. I went back to an employer from years past, and told him that I had used his Federal Express account to ship some personal items (Christmas presents to my family in another state). I told him that I was sorry, that I was now a Christian, realized it was wrong and returned the amount of money I had cost him. To my surprise, this non-Christian man knew exactly what I was talking about, and didn’t protest my restitution at all. There was no question in his mind that I had been wrong to use his account for my personal use and he hadn’t forgotten it either! (In my mind, though, had he not known about it, it would have been no less wrong!) I was able to give him my testimony as well. By the way, that’s just one example. I have experienced several other occurrences of having to make restitution, but I won’t bore you with those details! 

By returning the items without her employer’s knowledge, she is missing a tremendous opportunity to allow the Holy Spirit to bring glory to God by her repentance. This can be a powerful tool in His hand to bring about conviction to others. Zacchaeus , when he met the LORD, said, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.” When the Holy Sprit convicts, a person will only be concerned with getting right with God, no matter what it takes.

As Lisa pointed out, your friend seems to have a lack of faith in God’s ability to provide for her. This makes her actions understandable, but no less acceptable. In addition, she is also going against her husband’s wishes and hiding it from him as well. 1 John 1:6-7 points out, light reveals, darkness hides. We want to walk in the light, allowing Him to cleanse us from all unrighteousness!


_________________
Lori Jean Mooney

 2009/8/21 7:55Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Well, knowing her as I do, she won't go to her employer, she will just take them back, so that no one will be any wiser as to what took place.

Also, throughout the years, I have seen this sad characteristic of a thief in her.

For instance, she once came to my house years ago and took some pictures of my daughter, as a baby, without my knowing.
It wasn't until some years later, at her house, that looking through a photo album, I saw the pictures in there.

Why didn't she just ask? And I'm also thinking, she could have asked her employer and offered to replace the items as soon as possible. He would probably have laughed and told her not to bother to replace them, just take them. Then she could have them with a clear conscience.

As it is, her testimony is questionable at best.

But I won't go into that.

Thanks.

 2009/8/21 8:26Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Why didn't she just ask?



This is an extremely important point. And you are so right: if she had only asked her employer it is no telling what he would have given her. (Of course, I am speaking as an employer - I do not know yours.)

So, she took some soap - why not give her a recipe where she can make her own? There are recipes on the web to make your own laundry soap and if you get desperate it can be used for whatever you want to clean. It may not be as nice as some others, but it works! and it is cheap! and you do not have to steal to get it.

This lady has a thief mentality? Perhaps that is the fault you need to address, the one you need to confront her about? knowing full well it is a symptom of a deeper problem.

Just my thoughts and wishing you well,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/8/21 9:39Profile





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