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 Re:

Quote:
Have you even read Finney's autobiography or sermons?



Quote:
From Johnson's message, 'A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing



If I want to know what Calvin taught, should I read the critics of Calvin or should I read Calvin himself? Should I read quotes that might be taken out of context, or should I read his entire arguments?

If you are going to criticize a major figure in American and Church history, you should at least do some more scholarly research than merely reading one biased article written by an angry Calvinist that you probably found through google. At least give Finney and any other man you criticize the respect and decency of reading their position and arguments in their entirety as they were first presented.

 2009/8/17 15:38
ceedub
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Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

Hmmmm:
Good word. The very fact that God uses me is proof of your point. There is some tension about picking on Finney. I'm not picking on anyone, I hardly knew Finney ;-) . It's the gospel that we're all interested in. We all know Paul called down anathema on those that would corrupt it. There's nothing personal here. As PaulWest said earlier, there aren't 2 sides, but one.

 2009/8/17 19:17Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3697
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 Re:


Luke 5:31-32 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.



Luke 5:31-32 And Jesus answering said unto them , They that are whole need not a physician ; but they that are sick . I came not to call the righteous , but sinners to repentance .


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Phillip

 2009/8/18 0:03Profile
LoveHim
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Posts: 562
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 Re:

[i]In the meantime let us re-emphasize that the thing that matters is that no 'truth', 'doctrine', theory or teaching, whether it be good or doubtful, must ever be allowed to become either an end in itself, or a sidetrack. It must never be taken out of the essential context of God's full purpose. - Sparks[/i]

That I may know Christ!!!


 2009/8/18 0:06Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Believe;

Ro 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Ro 15:31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
1Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Or;

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Do we believe lies?

Or

Do we believe the truth which is in Jesus, taught by the Holy Spirit of the Living Word Himself.


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Phillip

 2009/8/18 0:19Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

No man is free to sin because of Grace. Only the opposite can be true. We are free from sin because of Grace.

Yeh, man but we do sin. Then we have an advocate with the Father who forgives and cleanses from all unrighteousness. Never free to sin.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/8/18 0:24Profile
LoveHim
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Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

[i]No man is free to sin because of Grace. Only the opposite can be true. We are free from sin because of Grace.

Yeh, man but we do sin. Then we have an advocate with the Father who forgives and cleanses from all unrighteousness. Never free to sin.[/i]

This my friend, is a simple and biblical post.

Thanks phillip

 2009/8/18 0:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Never free to sin.



Amen. We are never "free" to disobey God or His commandments. God does not give us a lisence to sin.

We ought to delight in the law of God but we should hate sin. It should never be the other way around. Sin is the real bondage, not holiness.

God offers us freedom and rest. We are not free to rest in sin! We are free from sin so that we can rest from sin! Sin is a hard task master. The Bible says that the way of the transgressor is hard, but His commandments are not grevious!

I love to obey God and to do what is right. I hate to disobey God and to do what is wrong. I don't want to be free to sin, I want to be free from sin!

 2009/8/18 0:47
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
No man is free to sin because of Grace. Only the opposite can be true. We are free from sin because of Grace.

Yeh, man but we do sin. Then we have an advocate with the Father who forgives and cleanses from all unrighteousness. Never free to sin.

In Christ: Phillip




i think you quoted scripture but left out a very important word from scripture, [b]if[/b]

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And [b]if[/b] any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

i do not think a human being can be absolutely sinless and perfect as Christ was in all his thoughts, actions and deeds, motives etc, but to say we must sin or have to is not completely true to scripture either, Jesus is powerful and mighty and can keep us even from stumbling, not falling but even stumbling, i am convinced he alows us to stumble and even fall to humble us from time to time, but scripture says

Jud 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, -ESV

he is able to save us to the uttermost...


according to our faith be it onto us....


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/8/18 1:27Profile
ceedub
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Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

I really appreciate brothers who have the same attitude Paul did toward other brothers and sisters in the Lord. He knew it was best for them that they sin not. He knew it glorified the Lord with upright lives. He pleaded, based on the mercies of God that they offer themselves up as living sacrifices. He truly had their best in mind. He loved them.

Very different from other religions that must perform to obtain so-called saving righteousness. They must threaten, call down and intimidate others to meet the bar. And that is because they know nothing of the 'righteousness of God'.

When you know it was Christ's righteousness that set you in your state of peace and grace and not your own, you have entered into that rest.

When you are still justifying as opposed to glorifying with your obedience, you haven't entered yet.


Peter boasted of his zeal and righteousness before the Lord. The Lord taught him how much he really had to offer. It's important to see that the Lord said Peter would be 'converted' after he was humbled.

It's encouraging to hear of the desire of other brothers to glorify God with upright lives, not lording self-righteousness over those they deem less holy than themselves.

Let us provoke one another unto love and good works.

 2009/8/18 12:02Profile





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