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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Is repentance of sins what saves us?

No, Jesus does

Quote:
What does it benefit a person who repents of his sins?

Answer: No and nothing.

Wrong!!!
It proves that one actually believes.

Quote:
Believe, Believe, Believe, and Believe again Believe, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the praise is to God, He cleanses me from all sin and unrighteousness.

If one doesn't repent, they have not been cleansed from all sin and unrighteousness.

 2009/8/16 12:39Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Logic wrote:

"Wrong!!!
It proves that one actually believes."

What must come first? Believing unto repentance or repentance unto believing.

What gives us forgiveness, Confession or repentance?

Repentance is a change in a belief system. Believing must come first, and if you want to make confession and repentance the same thing, I will agree with you.

Believing must come first, confession then repentance because our belief system has been changed, Satan out Christ in. Christ is now the system by which I am changed from Glory to Glory.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even (exactly)as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Repentance does not cut it, it must be, The Spirit of the Lord, for Israel repented, repented and repented, but still returned to Vail.

Repentance is the self works salvation that man puts before the lost and makes them responsible for their own salvation.

It must be the other way, Believe and you will be saved, not repent, Repentance after believing then becomes the mechanism by which we agree with God and the Spirit of Christ that is in us, that we believe Him, love Him and want to be like Him, now this is repentance, by the Holy Spirit teaching, who this Christ in us is and we are changed from Glory to Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/8/16 13:48Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:

Repentance is the self works salvation that man puts before the lost and makes them responsible for their own salvation.

If your saying that works without faith, then I agree.

If faith without works is dead, then works without faith is dead.
Dead works are what the lost do.

Quote:
It must be the other way, Believe and you will be saved, not repent, Repentance after believing then becomes the mechanism by which we agree with God and the Spirit of Christ that is in us, that we believe Him, love Him and want to be like Him, now this is repentance, by the Holy Spirit teaching, who this Christ in us is and we are changed from Glory to Glory.

This is what we are saying, but we are only claiming that repentance can not be dismissed.

Repentance is the first and primary work of faith which make our faith alive.

 2009/8/16 18:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Repentance is the self works salvation that man puts before the lost and makes them responsible for their own salvation.

It must be the other way, Believe and you will be saved, not repent,



REPENTANCE (forsaking sin) COMES BEFORE FORGIVENESS:

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity shall not be your ruin… Cast away from you all of your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die… For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves and live ye” (Ezekiel 18:30-32).

“wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved” (Jeremiah 4:14).

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:7).

“He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy” (Proverbs 28:13).

“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee” (Acts 8:22).

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent…. For the remission of sins…” (Acts 2:38).

“Repent, ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out…” (Acts 3:19).

“Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18).

The Bible talks about “repentance to salvation…” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

“Blessed are those that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).

"...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matt. 19:17).

"Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Matt 7:21).

 2009/8/16 18:37
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2737
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
What must come first? Believing unto repentance or repentance unto believing.



I believe that repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin (but they are not synonomous terms). I don't believe that you can truly repent unless you believe and you cannot truly believe unless you repent.

I wouldn't say that this is adding anything to the requirement of faith for salvation; it isn't faith plus repentance that saves, rather it is repentant faith.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2009/8/16 19:31Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.



So that nothing is more miserable than we, if we be without Christ, and without his faith, whereby it appeareth how little, yea, that nothing is left for the free will of men's merits. As touching every part, this lightening is referred unto the knowledge of God, because all our quickness of sight is mere vanity and thick darkness, until he appear unto us by his truth. That reacheth farther which followeth afterward: To be turned from darkness to light; for that is when we are renewed in the spirit of our mind.

Now meet unto repentance;

Acts 26:20-21 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

"that they should repent and turn to God"

This "repent" is after the Faith of Christ that turns us to God.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3340. metanoeo
Search for G3340 in KJVSL
metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o
from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Repentance then becomes a blessing and not a Law.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/8/17 0:01Profile
rnieman
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Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

Logic I liked your explanation here.

Quote:
The difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is that the letter relates to the outward action; the spirit relates to the motive or intention of the heart and from which the act should proceed.



May I ask one question. By living by the spirit of the law, does it cause us to obey the letter of the law?
Quote:
Ezekiel 36:26-27



In other words don't we now have the power(the spirit) to obey the letter, at the same time not necessarily pursuing obedience to the letter of the law, but rather pursuing obedience to the spirit of the law that would cause us to obey the letter of the law. The spirit of the law being:
Quote:
Matthew 22:36-40


which sums up the 10(letter of the law)

Russ


 2009/9/1 10:12Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
rnieman said:
Hey Logic, I liked what you posted below:

Thanks, it came from a paper which I wrote concerning the Law and Justification. It also includes the Atonement.
I could E-mail it to you if you want.

Quote:
What do you think of the following:
By living by the spirit of the law, does it cause us to obey the letter of the law?

You would think so.
However, I don't know all the 613 separate commands from the Torah, so I wouldn't know if i'm not disobeying obeying one.
None the less, it should have you keep all the moral law.

Quote:
Ezekiel 36:26-27

In other words don't we now have the power(the spirit) to obey the letter, at the same time not necessarily pursuing obedience to the letter of the law, but rather pursuing obedience to the spirit of the law that would cause us to obey the letter of the law. The spirit of the law being:
Matthew 22:36-40

which sums up the 10(letter of the law)

Jesus was %100 human & %100 God.
Being human, the only way that Jesus would be able to fullfill the whole law is by the spirit of the law.

[b]Romans 9:30[/b] [color=990000]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[b]:31[/b] But Israel, who followed after the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
[b]:32[/b] Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone;[/color]
Seeking the "law of righteousness" by faith is walking after the spirit (Romans 8:4) & fullfilling it by the spirit.

This is what the Scriptures call "The Rest" (Jesus is our rest)
[b]Hebrews 3:18[/b] [color=990000]And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[b]:19[/b] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
[b]Hebrews 4:1[/b] Let us therefore fear, lest, although a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[b]:2[/b] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them[/color] (the "gospel" which was preached to them was the "promise of rest" which is also preached to us)
[color=990000]but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[/color]

 2009/9/3 12:35Profile
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

Quote:
I don't have the wisdom of Christ, the righteousness of Christ the sanctification and redemption of Christ and there is nothing I can do to get it or keep it. It must be God that makes it appropriated unto me by His Grace through the Faith given me, which is not of myself, but that which is the Faith in which I now live this new life in Christ with the faith of Christ. Now I am Free and am not to take upon me the yoke of bondage ever again. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, (law keeping) but after the Spirit.

It is no longer I who have life but Christ who lives in me, and for sure He will never leave me. WE have been elected to Lambship by the Lamb of God and we know His voice and the Holy Spirit has sealed us to this precious position of son's of God. The Seal can never be broken.

In Christ: Phillip



Brother Phillip,

I would like to give an answer to the things you said here.

First you said:

Quote:
I don't have the wisdom of Christ, the righteousness of Christ the sanctification and redemption of Christ and there is nothing I can do to get it or keep it.



Brother, you do have the wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption of Christ. You have it at your fingertips, recorded in the New Testament you read.

Jesus spoke words of wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, or the good news of the Kingdom of God. These words were to be put in our hearts, and obeyed. By doing so we become like him, and walk as he walked, and then and ONLY then are we as he is in this world.

Brother you say:

Quote:
Now I am Free and am not to take upon me the yoke of bondage ever again. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, (law keeping) but after the Spirit.



But brother, Jesus spoke of another [b]yoke[/b] you are to take upon you.

Mat 12:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Mat 12:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

There is another law, that you are to learn to keep, and it is this law, that puts you IN Christ.

Gal 6:Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil [b]the law of Christ.[/b]

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: [b]THE WORDS that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life.[/b]

To abide in his "spirit", and have his "spirit" abide in you, is to learn his teachings, commandments, words and sayings, and OBEY them. Only then are you IN Christ, because Christ is IN you, because you have put his WORDS/SPIRIT in you. This is the spirit that gives you the power to over come all sin.

This is what it truly means to believe, and to have faith. This is the true spirit which leads to true eternal life. Not just believing in general or having faith and confidence in general, but knowing the WORDS, and acting on them. Then and only then are you IN Christ.

You said:

Quote:

It is no longer I who have life but Christ who lives in me, and for sure He will never leave me. WE have been elected to Lambship by the Lamb of God and we know His voice and the Holy Spirit has sealed us to this precious position of son's of God. The Seal can never be broken.



2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, [b]having this seal,[/b] The Lord knoweth them that are his. [b]And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[/b]

To depart from iniquity, lawlessness, is to learn to cease from sin, and to learn to walk in his words, sayings, teachings and commandments, as he also walked, which is to WALK IN AND BY HIS SPIRIT, or to as is said "Be IN Christ".

You said:

Quote:
Vain-Glory is fostered by the law, ones own justification to please God, ones own works righteousness, that by the keeping of the Law, and his believing in Christ is what has saved him.
This vain-glory also fosters ones own sanctification in himself, that his works will show his faith and that is what saves him and keeps him saved.



Actually faith, which is simple faith in Christ, believing that he existed, that he is the son of God, and that God raised him from the dead is what innitially saves a man. THEN he learns to keep the commandments of Christ, also called "THE LAW" of Christ, and he shows his faith in Christ by his WORKS, meaning by doing as Christ said to do.

Or is this also not a part of the scripture?

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that [b]they may see your good works[/b], and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? [b]do that which is good,[/b] and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus [b]unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/b]

1 Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women [b]professing godliness) with good works.[/b]

1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of [b]for good works;[/b] if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed [b]every good work.[/b]

1 Timothy 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, [b]that they be rich in good works,[/b] ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

And the whole purpose of scripture.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable, for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, [b]throughly furnished unto all good works.[/b]

Titus 1:16 [b]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.[/b]

Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of [b]good works:[/b] in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, [b]zealous of good works.[/b]

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God [b]might be careful to maintain good works.[/b] These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:14 And let our's also learn to maintain [b]good works[/b] for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love [b]and to good works:[/b]

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation (behavior) his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation (behavior) honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may [b]by your good works[/b], which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Brother, how can you deny such scriptures, while only quoting those that seem only in part, but not in context to truly agree with your theology?

You said to another brother in a different posting: "I don't know your name, but I know what spirit you are of." I know you meant that in a bad sense.

You and I are brothers, and though we may quote from the same basic Bible, we believe in and worship and follow a different Jesus Christ. We walk by a different spirit, and we believe in a different gospel. We use the same words, but what those words mean to you are quite different than what they mean to me.

El Harris
















 2009/9/3 15:10Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Dear brother Harris,

Quote:

"""You said to another brother in a different posting: "I don't know your name, but I know what spirit you are of." I know you meant that in a bad sense."""

This is not correct, I knew what spirit he was from by what he was saying about Christ, that is the Spirit that I knew and had oneness with, Christ in him and Christ in me.

You see I believe the Word of God and what God says about His Son, knowing it is not what I do that makes me a son of God. It matters not what I do, but what God has done with His Son in me.
It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. This is the life I now live, by the Faith Son of God. Either this is true or God by the Holy Spirit and the pen of Paul spoke and wrote a mouth full of mush and a pen full of liars ink.

I don't have any agenda but to see that all I speak or write is to as Paul spoke in all His writings, Quote: Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Fulfilling the Word of God by the Christ that is in us.

And knowing it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

If we ignore Paul's writings, we miss the mark, for in all God gave Paul to write to the gentiles, which no other person in the Bible knew that the revelation of Christ in a person, the mystery, revealed to Paul and Paul alone. We had snippids of this truth in the Gospels John 12:24, no fruit unless Jesus died, "corn of wheat fall into the ground it abides alone" and other writers of the New Testament, but no one got it at Pentecost, they took all the outer feelings and cloven tongues of fire and speaking to all different peoples, them all understanding in their own languages and the rushing wind and said, now we can save the world by the Holy Spirit and Power we have in us. That is why Paul was chosen 15 years after to show what the dispensation of Grace was all about, and the unrevealed mystery of God putting His Son in believers and giving them new birth and new life in the Son. Satan out and Christ in.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/9/3 20:41Profile





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